The Grey NATO – 390 – Slack Crew & A 2026 [Part 4]¶
Published on Thu, 10 Sep 2026 06:00:00 -0400
Synopsis¶
In episode 390 of The Grey NATO podcast, hosts James Stacey and Jason Heaton discuss their Labor Day weekend activities, with James visiting the cottage and Jason setting up his new garage workshop. They highlight the new Doxa Sub 300 in titanium and discuss upcoming events including the Toronto Timepiece Show on September 26-27, featuring a Marathon hangout, an RZE x TGN gear swap, and a live podcast recording.
The main segment features questions from their Slack community covering diverse topics: watches they were initially neutral about but grew to love (including the Tudor Pelagos Ultra and Seiko Aqualand), maintaining objectivity when reviewing watches from friendly brands, changes in the watch industry over the years, whether independent brands could challenge major manufacturers, balancing adventure and family on milestone trips, desert island album and watch choices (both hosts surprisingly picked Bon Iver's "22, A Million"), and planning a hypothetical unlimited-budget TGN meetup. The episode showcases the conversational chemistry between the hosts while addressing thoughtful questions from their engaged community.
Links¶
Show Notes¶
- The Grand Tour 2026
- Toronto Timepiece Show
- RSVP for Marathon x TGN Hangout
- RZE x TGN Gear Swap RSVP
- Seiko 7002 Diver
- Doxa Sub 300 Ti5
- Tudor Pelagos Ultra
- Timex Ironman 8-Lap
- Citizen Aqualand
- Paulin Mara Diver
- Tag Heuer “Glassbox” 39mm
- CWC Mellor 72
- “Touching The Void” - Joe Simpson
- “22, A Million” - Bon Iver
- ION Adventure Hotel
- Vancouver Convention Center
- The Grouse Grind
- The Pocket Bellows
- “Ill-Advised By Bill Nighy” (Podcast, now Season 3)
Transcript¶
| Speaker | |
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| Jason Heaton | Hello and welcome to another episode of the Grey NATO, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 390, and it's proudly brought to you by the always-growing TGN supporter. crew We thank you all so much for your continued support, and if you'd like to support the show, please visit the Greenado.com for more details. My name is Jason Heaton, and I'm joined as ever by my friend and co-host, James Stacey. James back, from a long weekend. Uh hope it was a relaxing one for you. |
| James Stacey | Absolutely. Yeah, it was a good one. Nice to uh nice to have a long weekend. Labor Day is one of my favorites of the year. Typically, it's great weather in this part of the world, and uh it's a chance where if you had other things going on, a lot of people do have that weekend off, even if maybe you work other weekends, so I typically get to get to see more of my family and that sort of thing. Um so yeah, after the kind of rush of Geneva Watch Days. Uh we zipped up to the cottage on Saturday and just got back yesterday night. So it was a good good couple of days up there, just kind of hanging out. Didn't really get up to much, you know. Uh fixed a lawnmower. We shred shredded a belt on the Kubota so we put a new one on. And uh and other than that just kinda hung out and went on little bike rides and sat around a fire, that sort of thing. How about you? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I had a relaxing weekend. I mean relaxing in the sense that uh I didn't uh venture too far and um kind of got up to a few things around here. I'm you know, as I've been talking about for the past couple months, I've been in the process of moving and and part of that um this weekend was kind of finally getting uh a garage workshop set up oh no completely um which is great you know I don't know if anyone has seen on my Instagram from the past years of how absolutely tiny my old garage was barely big enough to fit the the small Land Rover in with no room to spare. Um and now I'm I'm in a place where it's like a two-car garage with that's pretty deep and uh uh we've put in some like no less than three workbenches along one wall and then this weekend I I hung a bunch of pegboard and lighting and uh just starting to organize tools and clear things out 'cause I'm eager to uh to to kind of work in there this winter. I you know it'll be chilly of course, but um I think with a heater and um you know just some room to to work I I'm looking forward to just some s kind of projects I've put off for a long time on the on the old Land Rover. Um just some kind of sprucing up and refreshing of of bits and pieces and things like that. So um part of that process is is getting this workshop set up and I over the years I've inherited a lot of um tools and tool boxes um and everything in them from from my dad and uh in in kind of moving all of that over here and opening them all up, um, I will never want for another fastener in my entire life. Um there uh there's every size and shape of screw and nut and bolt and washer um that you could imagine. And uh so part of the I think that's going to be like some winter projects is to just sit and sort things by size and type and just kind of organize fasteners, which I I think I'll find uh oddly relaxing uh maybe while I'm watching Martin Dulard on on YouTube or something like that. So sure. But that's what I got up to this weekend. |
| James Stacey | That's awesome. Yeah, we uh aside from that, you know, in in the last episode I talked about the launch of the grand tour, uh so Sarah and I and the girls got through all of that uh as well in the last few days. It was the six episodes. Uh I think I think the first night we watched until all of the kids were asleep. Uh like as late as we could. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Uh and it was just absolutely fantastic. |
| James Stacey | So hope hoping to have Thomas on soon to chit chat about that and the watches and shooting and the rest of it. Um but I I thought it was just came out really, really well. So that was kind of the only media I got to uh over the weekend aside from some music. Um and then yeah, uh outside of that, I guess we have some, you know, it's it's now fully September. We are a full week into September, which puts us just a couple weeks away from the Toronto Time Peace show, which is crazy. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Um so that's gonna be the twenty |
| James Stacey | sixth, twenty-seventh. Uh if you've been listening to the last several episodes, we always give sort of the same update. Uh it's evolved a little bit this week. The RSVP is now live for the Marathon Hangout. Um, so you can find that in the show notes if you'd like to RSVP and hang out the evening of the 26th after the show. Uh we will be around um at a very special location downtown Toronto with some great food, some great beer, lots of great people, some very cool swag. It's going to be a very good time. So if you'd like to join, please hit that link in RSVP so that we know you're coming. And then speaking of RSVPs, we actually have a second one for you this week because we have locked in a space for the RZE X TGN gear swap. This is gonna be super fun two to four o'clock on the Saturday, so just after the live taping, which I'll mention in a moment. It's around the corner at a place called the Twilight Cafe and Bar in North York. It's a few minutes' walk from the show. Uh come out, bring some gear. Uh in the RSVP link that is in the show notes, there'll be an explanation of the sorts of gear and things that we'd like you to bring and that work really well at these events. So check that out, but a huge shout out to Huey and the folks at RZE uh for putting it it all together. We've got room for a bunch of people and it should be a really good time at Twilight Cafe and Bar. And then of course if you're at the show and would like to come see a live episode of TGN, that'll be twelve noon to one thirty P.M. We will be on stage. Uh we don't have a format yet. The last couple years we've done sort of potluck episodes, uh, but we might shift that this year. We'll figure out something fun. Um, but it'll be from twelve to one thirty and I I mean the show, the the recording, taping, whatever you want to call it for TGN is free, but there is a charge to get into the show. Uh so keep that in mind if you're looking to uh to come and attend. We'll have a great time and and if you're worried about missing out on that or or for any other reason not being able to make it, it'll be recorded and then aired the the week following. Yeah. Um so no s no stress there. We had a fun crowd last year and uh hoping for the same this year. So uh hopefully we see some of you face to face. Uh I think that's all of the the sort of upcoming you know stuff we wanted to get into. Obviously, September, our big move is the is the timepiece show. I'm looking forward to seeing you and having you here for a few days. Yeah I uh confirmed uh that our best the best option of our air mattresses uh is fully inflating all on its own, uh and and works nicely. So you'll have quite a nice space here, uh including the full projector and and screen setup if you should you want to take in some media uh in all of our spare hours, right? But uh yeah, be beyond that, you wanna jump into a little bit of wrist check? We've got some great questions for the Slack crew and A. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, definitely. Um I pulled out something I haven't worn in years, I think actually. Yeah, I |
| James Stacey | haven't seen this. This is a name I barely remember. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, um I gosh, early days of of TGN, if not before, um I found this old Seiko 7002 um diver at a a thrift store uh in a town about an hour south of Minneapolis um kind of midway through a road trip and uh it was just in a case old dusty thing really scratched up and it had some initials engraved on the back and was pretty beat up. Uh had a black bezel, um, just you know, your basic Seiko diver from probably the 80s. And I I always used to just wear it on a NATO because I it's got the shoulderless thick spring bars, but the this model doesn't have the drilled through lugs, so it's a little fiddly to take the the bars off. So I just always run it on a NATO and it's kind of the perfect just grab and go, you know, wrenching on the car, lawn work kind of thing. But I haven't worn it in a long time. And I pulled it out yesterday for whatever reason. I guess I'm still kind of organizing my office here. And I had this brainwave. I have uh uh a sixty three oh nine, 79, 72, 90, I believe it's called. It was the you know, when you think of a 6309, you think of the turtle case, but just when they shifted into SKX style cases, this was kind of a transitional uh sixty three oh nine diver that um was kindly sent to me by uh our good buddy John um Miltime uh on Slack uh a while back and it has a Pepsi bezel. and I always meant to get that kind of spruced up because the the when you pull the crown out, the movement, the kind of the dial moves around and stuff. So I think it needs like a movement holder or something. But in lieu of getting that worked out, um I decided I'd pop the bezel off and I did a quick search and found out that the the bezels are interchangeable on these two. So I I popped the Pepsi bezel on the seven thousand two and and wore that. Um give it the gave it the old shake and bake and uh and wore it uh last night into through today's dog walk and I'm still wearing it and uh it's fun. I haven't had a Seiko on my wrist in in a very long time. And uh yeah, it's kind of brings back memories for me. Just a fun piece. |
| James Stacey | Oh that's great man. Yeah those are those are very cool and the yeah the seven thousand and two is an interesting generation for those. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Um, and it is one where you |
| James Stacey | know, links back to kind of your earliest moments with Seiko and then this one coming in. And then I I forgot or maybe didn't realize that you had that six three oh nine, or even that it was that generation of 6309. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Um so that's lucky that the better's |
| James Stacey | swapped out. That's nice. Yeah. Always nice when those sorts of things work out. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, and I, you know, it's funny because I I was just dabbled in a little bit of, you know, kind of gorilla watchmaking here. I I took out my case back removal tool and and popped the case backs off of each um just to see if there was some easy fix to get that movement to stop shifting around in the six three oh nine and couldn't see anything obvious and it I kind of matched up both and looked and it didn't look like the 7002. If anybody out there's more knowledgeable than me, let me know, but I didn't see a specific uh movement holder in that one either, but that one seems nice and firm. So I'm not quite sure what to do about the 6309. But uh, you know, that that's the beauty of Seiko. Like you I popped off the the case back on both. I actually dropped the movement out of not dropped as in dropped, but I took out the the yeah movement out of the sixty three oh nine and kinda held it in my hand and gave it a little shake and it started up and it's just kind of a novel, kind of weird thing to hold a movement outside of a case and then I popped it back in and put the case back back on, took a little pocket knife and popped off the bezel and swapped them around. It's that sort of low stakes kind of fun that you can you can have with Seiko's. And it's, you know, it's just been a long time since I've had that sort of fun. |
| James Stacey | Oh, that's awesome, man. That's a good one for sure. For me this week, uh you know, one of the only watches that we didn't cover last week because it came out after we had recorded um was this new TI5 version of the sub three hundred a favorite watch of uh yours and mine and and probably one of the watches from this year that I'm now most interested to see in person because look I don't know that anybody's more on record about how good the the standard 300 uh versus the 300 T but this is the you know the 300 based on the the model from sixty-seven, which was brought back in twenty seventeen as an LE uh in the three colorways. And I I've got my uh C Rambler on my wrists, and I just think it's one of the best wearing watches I've owned and have ever come across. And I'm now expressly interested in what it's like when it's even lighter. Yeah, |
| Jason Heaton | can you imagine? And I think the oh dude, |
| James Stacey | I just I think the the the look of the titanium with the uh Caribbean or the the Shark Hunter. |
| Jason Heaton | It just looks marvelous. Uh so that very, |
| James Stacey | very high on my list. Obviously on paper, these are the same watch, but in titanium. I don't know how to like it it doesn't need to be that way. The steel is so good, but even better, I guess, and it it's a few hundred dollars more, I believe, than the standard in um in steel, uh, which, you know, again, being titanium, that's that is what it is. These were already kind of the flagship offering from the core of the docs to lineup, the 300T being a little less expensive, the 200 being kind of expressly less expensive. And the one thing I wasn't sure about, because I've been wearing my 200 Army a lot, like basically constantly since I got it, a little over a month ago, when it came out. And I thought maybe you throw this on and go from you know 39 to 42 and a half millimeters. This is one of my larger watches now, the Doxa. Doesn't wear like it at all. It wears so flat and square on your wrist. And I think the way that the case and then the bezel and then the um the the sort of crystal stacks up on top of each other helps mitigate any sort of slab-sidedness for it. And yeah, I don't I don't want to over talk on the on the doxa. You know, obviously we want to call it that it exists and why we didn't know about it. Normally we know about doxa stuff in advance, but not this one. And man, I just I'm very interested to see in person and I would love to either one of us, if we get a chance to see it in person in the future, we'll do an on-paper on wrist. Uh because I think it's a watch you and I both know so well, but never in titanium. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. I it it it just looks so good. I mean I you know, uh on the website, the photos, I mean it it's a little hard to kind of tell that it's anything different. Um you know titanium doesn't have that a really specific kind of dark matte gray look to it as opposed to the the steel, but um I just I I can imagine that the this thing is just incredibly comfortable. Um And I I I like that they I like that they um some people were kind of not complaining but commenting on how it doesn't come with a a titanium bracelet at this point. Um they're just doing it on kind of a tropic style rubber strap. But I don't know. I I've never been a huge fan of of Dox's beads of rice. I think they're okay, but they're a little bit they don't narrow enough at the clasp like the old old school ones do. So I'm I'm I've always kind of switched over to a strap anyway and I kind of like the way it looks on the Tropic strap. It just looks great. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I mean you know me. I I I absolutely adore Doxa and I love the 300. I'm not a fan of their bracelet. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Um I own a couple, I |
| James Stacey | think the one that I bought for my w that came on my 200T, I didn't even take the plastic off of it. Or if I did, like I didn't size it, it just like I took the clasp off it and put a mesh into the clasp, and on my 300 that I'm wearing now, it's on a mesh from like Amazon or whatever that I've, you know, cut and brushed with a Dremel. Um of the so it's the they obviously did um Professional Shark Hunter and then the Caribbean, which I mentioned, they've done the white pearl |
| Jason Heaton | with either a black or a white strap. And then they |
| James Stacey | have this red coral. Uh of the six, do you have a strong feeling? I like the white pearl in titanium is very, very cool. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I'd have a lot of trouble, I think, between |
| James Stacey | Shark Hunter and White Pearl. Mm-hmm. What do you think of this red coral? The mark the dark hands, I feel like maybe hard to read over the darkish sort of dial, but people on the slack seem to be really digging it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I'm surprised at how much I do like that one. Um, but you're right, the contrast isn't quite there for the hands other than the the loom or the you know the paint. But |
| James Stacey | again, we're just looking at renders. Yeah, exactly. |
| Jason Heaton | I'm actually surprised y you just mentioned as you were reading these off, I don't see a C rambler, which is interesting. No s no silver dial. |
| James Stacey | And no titanium in yellow, which in the past I believe they made uh am I c crazy to think that they did a TI eight hundred in yellow? Maybe I maybe not. In the mission thirty one was orange. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, diving star would be cool. May yeah, who knows? I'm sure they'll come out with something at some point. Um the Caribbean or the Shark Hunter are my two my two favorites. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Yeah, I think I think look if I get to try this on and I really can't the the orange on the bezel with the titanium with the black or the blue looks so cool. And then in the white pearl it's all black in terms of the paint on the bezel. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Uh I just I think they look |
| James Stacey | really good. I'm excited to see it in person, and and it could be one of those things that the goodness sakes you definitely I definitely don't need another titanium dive watch and I probably don't need another um doxa three hundred but I kind of love both ideas you know what I mean uh I could I could see this being uh being something that happens sometime in the future. These are very cool. So con congrats on Docs on what has to be one of their biggest years since twenty seventeen, since the fiftieth anniversary for the for the three hundred. They just so many cool watches this year. Um look with, with that out of the way, um, 'cause that's what's on my wrist, my three hundred, uh, which we'll be we'll be wearing throughout the rest of the recording, you want to jump into the slack crew and a |
| Jason Heaton | you know, I I as we were kind of proposing episode topics and this came up again. I I thought, are we doing too many of these? But then when I look at the list we have and we're in September We're |
| James Stacey | gett we're getting we've we've we've |
| Jason Heaton | got a a a long list. I mean this is going to take us through well into uh t uh 2027. So um buckle up because this is uh this is a good list this week I think |
| James Stacey | well yeah and buckle up because you know what time it is it's time for James to explain what the slack crew is yeah good luck uh let's be as concise as possible. I get five percent worse every time. Maybe better, who knows? Basically our normal monthly QA format is recorded. Uh people record their questions into their phone and then send us the file and we kind of run through where you can actually hear their voice. It's a bit like a radio call in show. We try and do those monthly. It's September. I just published May, so that tells you where we are in the schedule. And those are a lot of fun, um, but they're only for the paid side of the of the TGN supporter crew. Um so you can pay five dollars a month or m up to a hundred dollars a year, depending on what kind of benefits you want, and you can get into those extra episodes, the extra twelve QA episodes a year. We wanted to flip that on its head and ask the Slack crew, also a benefit of the five dollars a month format, to offer text questions that we turn into full episodes when we just kind of don't have anything to talk about that week. We did all the Geneva Watch Day stuff last week. Ideally, we have a a guest on uh next week if everything works out. So this one fills in nice right after a holiday uh with us doing the Slack QRA. So these are text questions from the Slack. If you like these questions, they do give you sort of an inside look into the the crazy minds that are are kind of operating on the platform. It's about two thousand people now, so it's very busy and it's a lot of fun. Uh but with that, Jason, do you want to kick it off with this one from Sven? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, Sven asks us uh what are the three watches that you had reservations about or at best were neutral about based on the spec sheet or pictures, but that you surprisingly really loved in the metal or on wrist? And he says this question was inspired by the recent love for the uh the Delhi watch company Terra. Um, and he says bonus points for doing affordable pieces that invoke the same spirit as the Terra. All right. Uh three watches. Um, this was kind of tough. I had to kind of think about this for a while. Um what did you come up with? Or you know maybe we can go back and forth or if you want to do all three. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. I I mean I I didn't put a specific focus on inexpensive watches, but I got to see the watch in person. Um, and the the first one that jumped to mind of a recent watch was the Tudor Pelagos Ultra. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, good one. Uh that this is a watch where |
| James Stacey | like when I saw the press release come out, I was like, that's not needed. The standard 500 meters plenty ultra. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And I already felt like that watch |
| James Stacey | was kind of a little bit too big for me, which is why I I really love my 39. Um, and then you know, got to see the watch a few hours later after they launched it and then you know it was available for our meeting in um in Watches and Wonders. And I I don't I like I think you would have to have given me the 500 right next to it to for me to tell that they wore any differently. It's a really interesting piece of packaging where they were able to up the spec again into a realm that's totally unnecessary. 500 meters is also unnecessary. Um, but you know, a few little tidbits you get some loom on the on the extending clasp. I like the the the use of text on the dial and that sort of thing. So it was the it was the Pelagos Ultra for me was one where I wouldn't say I was necessarily negative on it, but I if I was in the middle or neutral, this I was very close to being like, why bot why are we doing this? Why not give me why not why don't I have my G my my Pelgos thirty nine GMT or a blue th GMT uh blue thirty nine or whatever. Um so yeah, it was the the f ulcer was like the first one that leapt to |
| Jason Heaton | mind. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good call. D have |
| James Stacey | you had a chance to try or or experience an ultra? |
| Jason Heaton | I have not. No. I actually forgot about the ultra until you mentioned it. Yeah. I mean |
| James Stacey | you remain neutral then. Yeah, I do.. Yeah I |
| Jason Heaton | yeah, I had the same I had the same early thought as you. I just it was like, Yeah, why? You know, they're they're kind of the the Pelagos family continues to grow and and I'm so smitten with my f FXD and you with your thirty nine and I used to have a 500, and I just thought what where are we going here? But uh yeah, I'm glad to hear uh your opinions changed on that. Um for me, the first one that came to mind was was one that so I owned a version of this watch. Um I gosh had to be back in the back in the nineties, you know, when they were still new and fresh and whatever, and then kind of fell away from it. And never really resonated with me other than as an actual functional tool. Um, and then I think it was two years ago at the when I came to visit you in Toronto, you gave me one, and that is the eight-lap Iron Man Timex. I don't know. I was always kind of when it came to digital watches, you know, I had an Iron Man kind of back when I was training for a marathon back in the early nineties and it was kind of my running watch and I didn't really care about watches much other than that Seiko that I had. And th then I became kind of a Sunto guy and I really liked the size and the colorfulness of big Suntos when it came to digitals. But you know, when I was visiting you and and you said, Oh, try this uh it was the the gray uh eight-lap iron man um yeah the gray |
| James Stacey | shades. Yeah, um and I just |
| Jason Heaton | love this watch, you know, it it was one I was I I I wouldn't say I was negative on, but it just was like, Yeah, that doesn't really hit me right. I kind of maybe it was an association with a certain time in my life or whatever and I was just like, Oh, whatever, I'm just sort of neither here nor there on that one. But um I do find that that I wear it, you know, I mentioned earlier what's on my wrist, this Seiko 7002, and I kinda wear the Iron Man in the same way. I just kinda like to throw it on when I'm just out doing stuff. It's such an easy watch and it always beeps in my desk drawer here when I'm here recording and whatever and it's it's kind of fun. But uh yeah, that's the first one for me. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, that's a goodie. Uh I mean I've I've been a fan of those since those my first watch I bought. Was uh |
| Jason Heaton | yeah. As a was as a kid was in eat |
| James Stacey | lap. So uh I'm on board, but yeah, I'm it is nice every now and then because they are inexpensive and seemingly worn by people who are either trying to say that they don't care about watches or don't care about |
| Jason Heaton | watches. I think |
| James Stacey | they're very sweet things and I like these, you know, the the world we have in the last few years of these ones that came out of that came out of Timex Japan, which had all of these incredible sort of colorway variations and the the pricing wasn't insane and all that kind of stuff, so they are fun. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. The next one for me is actually |
| James Stacey | in a similar format. It was it was a watch that you liked and I liked sort of I was interested in them on paper, but I really didn't want one until I had to have one. And that was the Aqualands. Oh. |
| James Stacey | the full spec, you know, the JP |
| James Stacey | two thousand and seven series Aqualand. The m my first one was the Loom Dial. And now I'm such a cultist for them. I just I love them. But like you had one and I was always like, oh, I love the dial and I love the handset and I love that it's any diggy. I hate the bump. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh yeah. And then I got |
| James Stacey | one. Yeah. Dude, I just love it. But like that one, I I would say I was probably lower than neutral |
| Jason Heaton | to begin with. Like it was really the only thing |
| James Stacey | keeping me from being kind of a hater about it was how much you liked it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And then I got it in person. I was like, maybe this'll |
| James Stacey | this will just be like a very good but huge watch. Like that'll make me giggle. I'll wear it in the summer. And then you go, like, oh, it's a big watch that wears just really really well and has all these weird features and has this cool um you know dive in military history and it you know they check a lot of boxes for a certain type of watch nerd |
| Jason Heaton | yeah um but talk |
| James Stacey | about something you've got to kind of get a chance to put on your wrist. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And it's got to be with the right strap. |
| James Stacey | And then and then it really starts to work. They're cool things, but I I was super neutral on them. Possibly even a hater. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. Now you've got um a couple of different generations. I mean you've got the uh the duplex as well now. So you've you've gone deep. |
| James Stacey | I've got the duplex, I have the fortieth anniversary. Um I'm I'm I'm like I've got uh eBay mentions for co pilots and wingmen and and these other models. Like I yeah, I enjoy all of this kind of stuff. they're hilarious. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Um and while also like I said, |
| James Stacey | kind of being real tool watches that have cool backgrounds and and all this kind of stuff. So and I kind of like that they there's zero pretense. There's no pretentiousness possible with an Aqualand. |
| Jason Heaton | Right. Like it wears everything it is right on its |
| James Stacey | sleeve. There's no attempting, it's not a trying to be cool at all. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. Um, so you have to kind of find |
| James Stacey | it cool or you're like me before I got a chance to try it on, you just don't don't like 'em, don't care. You know, you can kind of ignore it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Right. And how about for your second one? My second one, okay. This is a this is might be come of as a bit of a surprise since it was one that I had some input on. I wouldn't say I helped design it, but I was kind of um behind some of the early thinking on it, and that was the the Paul and Mara. Um this is the the sister brand to Anne Ordain, um Scottish brand pollen, um, their first dive watch called the Mara. And um of course I was over in the the Hebrides for some of the photography and video that went with the launch for it um and went to New York for the the launch of the watch at at the wind up watch shop. And so I own the black dial one with kind of the gray bezel. And I remember when I first saw the photos, you know, Lewis uh from Paul and sent me some of the renders early on and said, well, here it is, you know, here here's our here's what we've come up with. And I was like, eh, you know, I kind of had this sort of whimsical, kind of playful, almost cartoonish look, you know, in kind of Paul and in the best way possible in the way that kind of pollen excels um and just wasn't quite sold on the handset etc m once i i got the two variations on my wrist the blue and then the black dial one. I've really come to love this watch and and it kind of straddles it's just different enough. And I think, you know, I got a few questions when this first came out of like, I'm surprised you got behind this watch because it's not really a a classic kind of tool watch. And I think that's what I like about it. It's just it's different enough, and yet it has some of the cues and some of the shape and the and the size characteristics of watches that I do like. Like um like a Doxa, I think you know the case shape is kind of similar to a 300, um, wears very comfortably. Um I love the ghost bezel on the black one. Um and it's uh yeah, it's just got some neat design features and a great rubber strap, which I I quite like, and then they've got a fabric strap with it as well. So um this is one that that kind of surprised me, and I I've grow I've grown to like it even more and more every time I wear it. So |
| James Stacey | that's nice. Yeah, for sure. And uh my last one is a category of one brands watches. Um, that I I I think one, I'm not a big chronograph guy that's on paper, but when they hit, they hit really strongly for me. And two, I'm not always a fan of Tag Hoyer's chronograph simply because so many of the Carreras are quite large. Right? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And this is the Carrera |
| James Stacey | glass box in the thirty nine millimeter format. So that includes the skipper, the normal black or green or silver, you know, there's a bunch of different colorways. But it's that glass box format. They are so sweet on wrist. And when I first saw the paper come out, I was like, well, at least they're at least they're a normal size. Maybe they're gonna be too thick. Maybe they're gonna be too this or that. They've got a nice movement. They're great looking watches that like capture that the what you want, that like historical feeling of a carrera. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Like a proper racing sort of chronograph. |
| James Stacey | It's not trying to do other stuff than be sort of automotive and inspired. then even if you lean into something like the skipper where you get all the extra color, |
| Jason Heaton | it still hasn't really like walked itself away |
| James Stacey | from that like the functional feeling part, the part that's derived from you know, this great history that Tag Hoyer has. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And I I just that watch, it works on |
| James Stacey | a NATO, it works on a strap. Uh they're just really, really nice. Um, you know, um among my favorites of the sort of chronograph world. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, that's a good call. I mean, we tag Hoyer's a brand that that surprisingly doesn't come up very much on TGN, but I I think especially the Carrera, I mean it's it it is a beautiful chronograph. And I think the fact that it leans so heavily into the automotive space that kind of um other than dive watches, I'm not a a huge fan of kind of anything that that's super specific in its uh kind of function or its its image. Um but I've always liked the Carrera. I remember seeing them early on and I think that thirty nine is uh it's a great size. I'd like to try one sometime. good call. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I think the the funny thing and and it's kind of like what Sven was was saying about like once you once you you loved it once you got to see it in the metal or on your wrist. Like for me that the Pelagos, the Aqualand and the Carrera are all watches I should like, but for whatever reason had a reference point tied to them that I didn't like. the size of the standard 500 on my wrist, the bump, death sensor, whatever you want to call it on the side of the Aqualand, and all these other, you know, year the 20 years of other forty-four millimeter chronographs from Taghor where you'd go on a press trip with them and they'd be like, here's your watch for the next two days, and it'd be like there's no possible way for me to make this comfortable. It looks ridiculous. Oh yeah. And then they bring out the one that dials it all back down to like just a watch. It's just a really good unit of watch. |
| Jason Heaton | And I think that uh you know for mine, |
| James Stacey | you know, there's a similarity there. But yeah, it's all stuff that I just think go to a store and see if you can put them on your wrist for sure. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. You don't have to buy anything, but it's fun to |
| James Stacey | know. Right. Yeah. All right. |
| Jason Heaton | My last one is um it's the CWC Malore seventy two. Um So sure. This was the little hand wound field watch, you know, kind of British Army watch that they kind of their first piece that they came out with, uh as the as the name suggests, back in 1972. Um tiny little thing, little bubble crystal, um, you know, very military dial. I mean, no big surprise there. um but I always just kind of thought it it looked a little plain. I think a lot of the kind of the the G10, you know British Army kind of watches that after the days of Smiths and the old vertex and dirty dozen stuff I always thought they kind of looked a little bit bland. But I had one of these for a while and it is a small watch. I think it's like 35 millimeters. But it it's just one of those watches that that with the the larger dial and that kind of domed crystal, it it looks good. And it's one of those watches that um l you know, to Sven's question like something that we saw or wore, um, but it's the kind of watch I that when you look across a table and see it on someone else's wrist, it just looks good, you know, and you notice them in movies or on TV shows when somebody's wearing an old British Army watch. Um, it's just a good looking watch and very affordable and just very, very simple. so that's that's kind of my third pick. |
| James Stacey | That's great. Yeah, a good uh good six watches there and a fun question from Zven. Thank you so much for that. Next up we've got one from Harry Riss who says, James and Jason, when you're reviewing new watches from friends or friendly brands, how do you stay objective? Do you have to force yourself to be harsh or do you use some sort of a system? Aaron Powell |
| Jason Heaton | Good question. Um I think you know this is the this is a question that that used to come up more often um even around th things other than watches when I was writing for Gear Patrol, people would say how how can you write anything negative about you know a brand that sends you cool gear to review and and um I just I I f well, I I guess two things I'll say right off the bat is there really is I would say, especially when it comes to watches. Th'eres no such thing as objectivity in watch reviewing. I I I get where Harry Wrist is going with this question, but um watches are so subjective. And um so I I think you know, just to get that out of the way right off. But then also uh at least speaking for myself, I typically have not been su super keen about covering things that I don't really like. And I know that's a bit of a luxury as a as a writer. You know, sometimes you just get an assignment like check out this new Ublot or whatever it is, and if if you don't like it, you're kind of still stuck writing about it. But um so for the most part, I I would say it's an absence of coverage that is more telltale about my opinions about it, something, than it is any specific commentary that I have. And you know, watches are by and large, they're they're quality is rarely an issue these days. I mean they're watches, even the micro brands up to the high end stuff, the quality is rarely an issue. So it really comes down to aesthetics. And I don't think anybody, even if it's your best friend working for a brand expects you to like everything. Um so that's that's kind of where I land. I mean I think I I can always find something to to niggle about when it comes to to a watch, you know, whether it's the thickness or the strap it comes on. But uh um yeah, anyway, those are kind of my thoughts on it. How about how about you? I mean this this this is probably way more relevant in in your world now in terms of uh coverage and as editor in chief especially. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I've I found the rule that that tends |
| James Stacey | to keep things pretty square is um and this is what I would say to any of my writers that that feel like they do have a negative point that they would like to make, or that sometimes you make one negative point in an otherwise glowing article, and the only thing that people attach to in the comments or the CEO of the brand or whatever wants to talk about is that one line about the thing that you didn't like. I think objectivity is almost nonsense in Enthusiast Press. I'm here because I really like watches and I'd like to cover the ones that I I that I like. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. With a more complicated topic, |
| James Stacey | like maybe not a watch review, but a an essay about a given topic where you might be using examples on things over on two sides of the line. the fact is that my guiding light, which is something I was told from the automotive world, um, that was paraphrased to me from someone who was told by like you know the editor-in-chief of Road and Track at the time would say, You can basically say anything you want. I'm that's I'm not going to be editing that for you, but you can't put yourself in a scenario or me in a scenario where I couldn't sit across from this person, the person who you're criticizing, at a dinner and not be able to back it up. So I would say the first two things to to keep in mind is are you presenting a personal opinion? There's a way to phrase that. Or are you presenting a piece of data that you know there's something wrong? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. And I would never pull back |
| James Stacey | from the something wrong here, unless it was so unbelievably negative that there's almost no value, you're just trashing something. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. But there's a huge difference |
| James Stacey | between someone who knows what they're talking about putting that in a way that that creates a conversation, or versus saying, like, that watch sucks and I just don't like it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I It's not something that I deal with a |
| James Stacey | ton, like it look kinda like Jason, in many ways, especially in my current role, I would be more dealing with the negativity or the possible negative ramifications of something said by someone who writes for Hodinkee rather than just for me. I get to pick and choose my stories. I I write like six a year, maybe now, and I'm not spending much time writing like from a negative position. I just wouldn't cover the thing if I thought it was bad. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Like a lot of the quote unquote |
| James Stacey | bad watches that hit our inbox, if there's not something cultural to speak about with the watch or noteworthy or special, or even just the watch is so derivative that it doesn't matter, um, we just don't cover it. |
| Jason Heaton | Mm-hmm. Right? Like the the thing I often |
| James Stacey | try and say is like if this watch wasn't announced this week, would you feel like something was missing or if this brand disappeared, would is there a core piece of our audience who would miss it? If the answer's no, we're probably not gonna weigh in. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And then when you do and you |
| James Stacey | write about a brand that you maybe you really like but you have some criticism, that can be quite valuable. there's a tonal way to do this because this is still enthusiast press. And I know that this is a deeply unpopular opinion, what I'm about to say, but I do believe it to be true that a majority of the audience for what is done in this world aren't buyers. They're people who love watches and just want to read about them 'cause it's entertainment.. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah Yeah. Like if I if what if I |
| James Stacey | write a what did I write about just recently? Like uh the I did a hands-on with the Black Bay Chrono 39. That's just a watch people are interested in. It's like when I read about a new Ferrari or or the fact that McLaren's gonna put a manual transmission in their next car, I'll read that story. I'm never gonna buy the car. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. So I'm clearly only there for some sort |
| James Stacey | of entertainment, some sort of intellectual fulfillment. And this idea of it like being critical or like that criticism is a higher form of writing about something than developing its context and sharing the high points and covering and you know, sharing it because you like it, I don't necessarily agree with. |
| Jason Heaton | Mm-hmm. Yeah. But when you have criticism, |
| James Stacey | I would say make sure you're saying something that you can pro you can back up. that's the main point. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. You made a good point years ago that I've always remembered, and that was um you know not to diminish what what we do when we talk about watches or review watches, but we're not reviewing things that are going to save your life, like a car with airbags and and crumple zones and safety features. You know, I mean this isn't like something you're gonna buckle your child into. You know, I mean these are these are these are watches, these are luxury items, these are largely aesthetic choices, and so um I don't want to say the bar is lower, but it's uh and could people are spending big money on some of these things, but um it's just a a different type of uh different type of reviewing. So |
| James Stacey | thanks very much for that one, Harry Riss. Next up, we've got one from Baz Bremner who said in all of your years in and around the watch industry, uh sorry for making you all sound so vintage, what are uh some things you're glad that are no longer present and what are some new things that you welcome? So uh Jason, evolutions, you know, in the last I I realized recently it was twenty years since I wrote my first |
| Jason Heaton | anything about a watch that went on in a real on |
| James Stacey | a real website. Yeah. Um so w did you did anything leap to mind for you? |
| Jason Heaton | Um I struggled with this because I I think I don't know if it's just kind of my fading memory or sense of nostalgia, but I actually kind of pine for the old days. I think um I think there's not much that I didn't like when I was first getting into it. Um I I think the the way that the industry is is headed um and to a certain degree kind of media coverage with kind of an emphasis on you know eyeballs in terms of video and YouTube and TikTok, etc., um is is a trajectory that's just less appealing to me now. So I I feel like the old days were my preference. That said, I think the the new things that I welcome are things like uh that that have changed quite a bit since those early days are the rise of kind of there's a more egalitarian spirit. I guess um you know, I guess you could say this is a criticism of the old days, the things that I I'm glad have changed. Uh you know, when it comes to media, like the it's just more of an egalitarian landscape as well as with the brands themselves. I just think the the rise of really high quality micro brands and affordable um high-quality watches that are kind of pushing up against kind of the the old stalwarts of of watch companies um is something I embrace and I I just I applaud. I think that's great. I also think the the rise of of smaller shows like Toronto Time Peace Show, Wind Up, uh British Watchmakers Day, like those things didn't exist, you know, it was Basel World and SIHH and and maybe one or two other kind of small shows, local stuff. But I I I just think this kind of of flattening the landscape, both on the media side, the industry side, and the shows, um, is something that I just think is such a huge improvement over where things were at. You know, the first year that I went to SIHH and the the bloggers How about you? Anything you didn't like that you're glad is gone? |
| James Stacey | Um I I you know, when I first |
| James Stacey | started doing this, like very early on, going to the major shows and that sort of thing, the whole system was still very um tuned towards magazines and very much not interested in blogs or web coverage. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Um, so I'm I'm happy that's changed. |
| James Stacey | You know, the in in the early years of me going to Basel World, you weren't getting a meeting with Rolex because they didn't care |
| Jason Heaton | about a blog, right? Um, |
| James Stacey | about a website versus having a large magazine and and you know that sort of thing. Um so I'm happy that's changed. Other than that, I would say, you know, things I would welcome. I'm I'm glad that after years and years and years of pressure, uh, from certainly from me, certainly from everybody else who does similar sort of work, that brands are now including things like thickness and lug to lug in the press release. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Uh I would love it if they'd include |
| James Stacey | the price in the press release rather than sending it and forcing me every single time, sometimes, you know, 50 times a week, writing back to somebody and saying, Hey, thanks so much for this. What's the price? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. The th you know, if if we're if we're |
| James Stacey | gonna say things that I I hope go away that they're novel-ish now, but sh I hope don't last, it's the use of renders for a lot of watches. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh yeah. Like I I kind I kind of |
| James Stacey | get it if like uh a a really small brand that hasn't actually maybe made that watch yet because of the way their wait list works, um and and that sort of thing, like maybe maybe they're they want to announce on a certain cycle, but you know, it's a it's a brand with 20 employees or 10. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And they they know |
| James Stacey | they have renders and they have a history of making watches that look like they're renders. Okay, fine. I kind of understand it at that point. But man, it's nuts when it's like a huge brand |
| Jason Heaton | that's part of a large luxury conglomeration |
| James Stacey | where they just have like kind of bad renders with bad backgrounds, and and you're like, Well, you guys look you you don't have any of these watches, all you do is make like two million watches a year. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. You can't make this watch. You don't |
| James Stacey | have a product cycle that would allow you to have the watch ready in time to launch it. You know, like it I think it's one of the nicer things about uh Tudor is that a lot of times the watch comes out the day that the product launches. So even if you end up with a render, |
| Jason Heaton | and they're they're not the renders I would point |
| James Stacey | out as being bad. But even if you end up with a render, it's probably you're probably like two hours away on Instagram from somebody going to a boutique and you could see the watch in the metal. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. In some video or photos or that sort |
| James Stacey | of thing. But other brands, you're just gonna like it's a render of a of a watch that's gonna be in every mall in two months. And you go, you guys, you literally couldn't just have somebody and then you you then you look at the other side where like a brand will have Zach Pina shoot it shoot their watches. |
| Jason Heaton | Mm-hmm. And then you get these beautiful photographs |
| James Stacey | that come in every size and resolution and crop factor and you can do anything you want with them for promoting. And you're just like, man, uh, there's there are lessons here for these brands that get it or and know that that's the important thing versus brands that are just kind of like, hey, here's like three really weird renders and a soldier photo. I hope that's an oh and they're all in sixteen in nine by sixteen for Instagram stories. |
| Jason Heaton | And you go, you guys have nothing else and they go, Yeah, |
| James Stacey | we have nothing else. And you go, well it's gonna be very hard to illustrate a landscape story for a website uh with these assets. So |
| Jason Heaton | yeah. that's my my possible rant. |
| James Stacey | And then the last thing that I'm welcome that we have, kind of not not dissimilar from what I just said, is there's just more digital activation than there was when I started. You don't have to go to a dinner. You don't have to go to a press trip. You don't have to go to, you know, some sort of an event just to spend 30 minutes with a watch in a boardroom in Geneva. There's like whether it's more of an understanding that, you know, they should have the watch in New York, they should have the watch in LA, they should have the watch in Geneva and available to see it that same day or a couple days later. But even on top of that, it's just like more watches would be launched just in an email. I I just need a PDF and some good images and the price. Yeah. |
| Jason Heaton | You know what I mean? It's not much more than that. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Um, but you'd be surprised we're like, that's difficult and remains difficult with some brands. |
| Jason Heaton | They'll be like, this is our biggest launch of the year and they'll |
| James Stacey | have four photos. And they're all the same photo. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Essentially. Yeah. So that's uh that's |
| James Stacey | definitely uh a bummer. But yeah, thanks very much for that one, Baz Bremner. Uh good question there. All |
| Jason Heaton | right. Well, let's uh follow that up with our good buddy Chaz who sent in a question that says, um are small independents poised to take over the world as they offer more creativity and better customer service at a more affordable price point than the legacy Swiss brands? Thanks for that question, Chaz. Um good one. I I love the the idea that independents are poised to take over the world. Um I think uh I think in many respects, at least in the watch world, um we are seeing a real shift. What do you what do you think about this one? |
| James Stacey | Uh yeah, I I just don't think so. Um independents are small brands, and and some of these ones that are the most powerful are also really small brands that now have a 10-year wait list for a watch. Um I no, I don't I don't think and take over the world, definitely not. I still think these will remain hyper niche, collector focused. Um things that you know never really see the light of day beyond maybe a certain celebrity's Instagram or another collector in our field or that sort of thing. But like until you see a I don't know a Sylvain Pinaud or a an Anderson Genev or even a Rechep Rechepi uh like on um like in a major television show on some but even even if they did that, it's not gonna change how many watches they can make. |
| Jason Heaton | I think that I think like we've literally we're like |
| James Stacey | watching these brands smash into the ceiling of what it takes to produce a product like that quickly and as good as they want it to be, which means you can't do it quickly, which means you can't keep up with the demand. I'm that that would be my feeling is no, they're they're not taking over the world. They might be taking over a certain strata of enthusiast mind share and buyers that are kind of not being offered something they feel compelling from a major brand and they want something more special, harder to get, something their friends don't also have, that sort of thing. But that's a that's a small group of people. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I took a a a different perspective on this because I I guess maybe I misread the question, but I I was thinking from a T GN mindset when when Chaz mentioned small independence, I'm thinking micro brands. I'm thinking independent brands that are not part of big conglomerates. So I I was looking at um kind of the competition that as as the bigger brands, you know, the Swatch Group brands and LVMH, et cetera, are kind of continuing to kind of raise prices and get more in the luxury sphere, we are seeing the void being filled by um the smaller brands that we talk about more frequently. And I think that there is a bit of a splintering in the watch world where those smaller brands are sliding into the territory that the big brands used to occupy. So you know, I can't speak to the the the true kind of high-end independence that you were just mentioning, but I think the um enthusiasts can are now offered so much more choice that they can ignore the big brands who seem to kind of be chasing bigger money and marketing and and kind of the luxury lifestyle. Whereas I I think, you know, some of the smaller brands, Elliot Brown, Christopher Ward, Clements, Brew, Autodromo, you know, some of these brands that are just kind of offering really well-made, very affordable watches that enthusiasts can can get excited about again and actually buy. Um and I I so I'm not sure, I I don't think taking over the world is I think that's an overstatement, but I do think it's uh it's something that I applaud and that I I think is uh has been a a a pretty major shift I would say in the past I don't know, t decade or so. Um as well as kind of the acceptance, I think, you know, there used to be this sort of finger wagging about, you know, the smaller brands they're making everything in China and that's how they're affordable. I think there's just a more of an openness and acceptance about Chinese manufacturing. I think they're they're brands that just talk openly. You know, Elliot Brown doesn't doesn't uh hide the fact that they get a lot of their stuff made in in China, um, you know, or Clements or whoever, you know, maybe I'm I'm not gonna speak for you know brew or autodromo, but you know, these brands probably sourcing a good number of their components and things. Um and I think there's just become kind of an acceptance that like these are still really high quality things and and if they make them more affordable, um, all the better. and so um I I would say that this sort of a I don't want to call it a seismic shift, but you know, uh definitely a splintering in the watch world where enthusiasts can just have have more choice now. So um maybe I maybe I misread that maybe Chaz was referring to kind of independence in terms of the high-end stuff, but I'm not sure. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, when I hear independence, I always think independent capital I independence versus micro brands. But maybe that's what Chaz meant. In which case, uh my ramble, just skip it. uh and and yeah, I would say I don't think that micro brands or those small the small like family brands are going to take over again. it's a scale issue. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. But I think that with |
| James Stacey | that scale in mind, with the kind of uh David and Goliath of a micro brand category versus uh the swatch group, sort of with that in mind, I think they are over punching, uh like punching above their weight in terms of the amount of money they take off the table in the enthusiast core. So where where maybe years and years ago you would have only had the options of the Hamilton and the Tissot and that's what now you have you have twenty other, thirty, forty, fifty other great options. Yeah. And the deeper you go, the more those doors kind of open up to you and you know about more and more niche brands. And none of all of them do hit in that same price point uh or can. Um and yeah, so I think there's a lot of power there. I j but I don't think it would I don't think it would scale in a way that's gonna take a lot out of the broader business of those uh major groups. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Yeah. Like the mall the mall business |
| James Stacey | versus the guy that has a spreadsheet and goes on every watch you seek form about a watch and watches the YouTube video and then that sort of thing. |
| Jason Heaton | Right. They may lose that guy, as they |
| James Stacey | have with me. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Thanks for watch.ing One question for that one, Chaz. Thank you for that. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Next up we've got one from uh Adam Aldrit who says I'm approaching my fortieth birthday. Congratulations. Yeah. And want to do a big trip to celebrate. Hopefully we're we're snagging this question in time. Um I'm struggling with the trade-off between an adventure focused vacation that feels truly epic and a more family friendly trip that everyone can enjoy equally. How do you think about balancing adventure, travel time, and family enjoyment when planning a milestone vacation. James, I think you can probably speak a little more to this one with kids and how you can kind of balance that. I have my opinions, but I'll let you go first on this one. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I mean, I I don't want to oversimplify Adam's question, but Adam is uh and first happy birthday. That's awesome. I turned forty this year as well, and had hopes of doing a large adventure, which I didn't do because I have a one year old. So I think I understand uh but again, not to oversimplify, but is this vacation for you or is it for your family? |
| Jason Heaton | Mm-hmm. Two different things, right? |
| James Stacey | You don't mention how many kids or how old they are, but if they aren't enough or they aren't inclined enough to keep up with you on a bigger adventure, then it's almost certainly you're making this trip for your family. At which point the kind of headquarters of the trip has to be something that works for everybody and then maybe you can escape for an adventure. And I might do that or I have done that in the past by going to a resort in Mexico where I could dive, but there was all the other stuff that resorts offered for my family. Uh the easy food, the the kids' activities throughout the day, the pool, the ocean, the jet skis, the all this kind of stuff. I don't think you can do both. For my 30th, I did Baker |
| Jason Heaton | and I did that al alone. I didn't do it alone on |
| James Stacey | the mountain, but I didn't no nobody from my family was there. That was a selfish trip for me for my 30th that I wanted to do. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And for my 40th, |
| James Stacey | I had uh I had, you know, hopes of doing the originally I had plans of doing the the tour de Mont Blanc, or at least a a good sizable piece of it. And then we've shifted that and there will eventually be a family trip that isn't gonna be a classic adventure. It'll be something much more family friendly. Um I don't know any way of doing both necessarily, like depending on the scale of the adventure that you had in mind. Um but you're basically deciding like is this a vacation for you that you're taking for your fortieth as maybe that's your gift or whatever, within the scope of your family and its finances and all that kind of thing, or it's something you're taking everybody on if everybody's coming then you gotta please everybody for sure. That's how I see it.. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah I think um it depends on what you term an adventure and what type of adventure that would be and and the the duration of that adventure. So um speaking for myself, you know, not having kids, but but you know, having um a significant other along on on several of these trips. I I've always tried to kind of pick an event or a challenge or an adventure, not specifically for a birthday, but um so a few examples, Alcatraz swim, running the fan dance, uh the point to la point you know, open water swim I just did uh last month. Um these are kind of things that that I would train for for many months, but then they would take a day or half a day. Um, and they were pretty epic, and I felt good about it, and I felt like these were significant milestones and things that I could be proud of, but they didn't consume an entire trip like the tour to Montmont Blanc or um you know, climbing Kilimanjaro or something where you're gonna leave somebody behind for days and weeks. Um and and you know, Adam, I'm not sure what type of adventure you're thinking about, but as James said, you can you can do some pretty great diving on a family vacation and still be back for lunch, you know. Um you can come back at twelve, one o'clock in the afternoon after two morning dives and regale your family with with stories and show them photos from what you just did. Um and that's uh that's pretty cool. So um I would say there is a way to kind of balance this. It just all depends on, you know, the duration and the type of adventure that you're seeking. So good luck with that and uh happy birthday. Yeah, |
| James Stacey | happy birthday and let us know in the Slack what you chose to do, uh whichever direction you went. I I think both are great options. Uh but doing both on one trip, I don't know how that works. If you figure that out, do let me know. Yeah. Right. Uh I I would love to know for sure. Uh next up we've got one from seven point five interest who says in the book slash movie the Martian fictional astronaut Mark Watney is stranded on Mars with only disco music to listen to. If you were stranded alone on Mars, what album would you want to keep you company? And since this is T GN, what watch would be on your wrist? Thanks so much. All right, seven point five inch wrists. Thank you so much for that. Jason, uh album that you would like to listen to with an unknown amount of time on Mars ahead? |
| Jason Heaton | Um you know we had a question like this uh it was probably a QA a couple of years ago and I think I said Miles Davis kind of blue. Um and I I think the reason I said that, um, and I'm I I would still say that's in the running, um, is anything with you know kind of catchy bouncy melodies or you know, lyrics, like the catchy lyrics, I think, could really start to grind, um, kind of listening to on repeat, or or you know, if that's what you were stuck with. So it it reminds me of um in the movie Touching the Void, or even the book um by Joe Simpson, you know, when he when he's kind of out on the glacier kind of in a daze, you know, um from from being severely dehydrated, um he he there's the song that can continues to go through his head, um, Brown Girl in the Ring by Boney M and he's just it drives him crazy. and you can kind of relate to that when you think about you know songs that maybe you liked at some point, but just like after the twenty-second time, you're just you you can't you don't want to hear it again. One album that I do come back to, actually two albums, both by Bon Ivor, um, I would say would be this the self-titled one that that I like so much, Bon Ivor, or um twenty-two a million, which I think just had its 10th anniversary. Is that right? |
| James Stacey | It did. Yeah. Um just recently, like |
| Jason Heaton | last week. Um great album. Like I don't think you can always understand the lyrics and they have this sort of atmospheric um sound to them both um in very different ways, both of those albums are very different. Um but just beautiful music. And I think I could find myself getting lost in in the music um and find new things to kind of appreciate about it every time I every time I hear it at least, for at least for a few months. I'm not sure for you know indefinitely. Yeah. But uh those two or um yeah, I could I could probably stick with uh a Miles Davis album, some some good jazz. Okay. How about you? |
| James Stacey | Sure. I only wrote down one album, |
| James Stacey | and I promise to everybody listening that Jason can't see my notes and I can't see his, it's Bonnie Vare's 22 million. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh wow. That's wild. I've |
| James Stacey | been listening to it for ten years. I'm not tired of it. I'm delighted by several songs on it. If you guys want to pick that isn't what also Jason managed to pick, which is very surprising because we don't have super similar tastes in music, or at least I didn't realize this is where we would overlap um necessarily. I do I know we both love Bonnie Vare. Um I g I guess you know give me give me um Helplessness Blues by Fleet Foxes. |
| Jason Heaton | Mm-hmm Um but I also I would say that Helplessness |
| James Stacey | Blues is in my memory. I know every song I could hum along uh without needing the the album. I know all the lyrics. So I I think with twenty two million it's it's abstracted enough from being like Jason said, kind of song song and lyric music. |
| Jason Heaton | Mm-hmm. And it's I I think that it would |
| James Stacey | it would give me lots to kind of determine and think about and and then lots of other stuff, you know, hers and fleet foxes and uh uh uh broken bells, those are just in those are in my RAM still. Uh I I can pull on those for years, I believe. Uh I I walk around my house with the song stuck in my head all the time. Um so I think that would be fine. But yeah, Bonnie Varus twenty two million. I'm I'm blown away that we're we both kind of picked |
| Jason Heaton | yeah uh one of the same albums, but uh that |
| James Stacey | that's the one that I I just like I said, I'm a decade in and I I've I'm yet to be bored of it. I find uh songs I didn't like for the first couple of years I like now. That's a good sign. Um so yeah that's a it's it's a great album. Yeah. Uh an incredible decade uh for that band for that uh for those tracks. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah well if we're stranded together then we're in good we're in good shape music wise. |
| James Stacey | Yeah until I start humming ABBA for three weeks and you have to murder me. Um just the same one same line of some indie band from Toronto from twenty years ago. What do you mean you don't know the wooden sky? Uh so yeah, uh that that's what I would have. But um what would where did you land on watch? I youf if you ha one watch you're gonna have it for a while, you're not going diving. You're sitting in a geodesic dome in in uh in Mars making potatoes. |
| Jason Heaton | Hmm. Okay. Well, um I I was going to say my FXD 'cause it's it's a watch I just wear almost nonstop now. But um for purely kind of visual interest um and just kind of uh whimsy, I I I I might just say my my vintage uh oh boy, I was gonna say my vintage Nava timer, but it could be the T graph too. Um I'm thinking the Nava timer. Th if it's dark, the loom isn't great, so that might be a problem, but um let's assume there's there's light enough to see. |
| Jason Heaton | I'm sure. Um so yeah, I think vintage |
| Jason Heaton | navitimer. I think it'd be great. We're not you know we're not encountering any water, I don't have to worry about it uh flooding or you know, |
| James Stacey | yep fogging up or anything like that. So |
| Jason Heaton | yeah. What about you? Like that uh like |
| James Stacey | that Futurama joke, you know, how how deep can this spaceship go? Well it's good to one to zero atmospheres. Uh which I think the Nava Timer would do just fine. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Perfect. Uh in that scenario as well. Yeah, |
| James Stacey | I mean unsurprisingly I, would wear the aerospace. |
| James Stacey | Oh, yeah. Polymesh uh and |
| James Stacey | Aerospace. A little bit of function there in case it was helpful for whatever mission we were doing. |
| Jason Heaton | Geez. Two brightlings. I love the watch. yeah. |
| James Stacey | and you got Miles Davis, which is has a brightling connection as of last |
| Jason Heaton | week. Wow. Yeah. Good stuff. |
| James Stacey | We've been we've been influenced. Yeah. Uh |
| Jason Heaton | somehow. Somehow it's finally happened. Right. |
| James Stacey | Uh nearly four hundred episodes in. So uh yeah, that's uh that's a fun question. Um seven point five interest. And And that's one I would love to uh see a thread on Slack. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Uh with people saying their album and |
| James Stacey | their watch. Um even even just to help me find some new albums that people like that much. You know what I |
| Jason Heaton | mean? True. Uh that'd be fun. Yeah.. |
| James Stacey | All right Let's uh let's close it out with a final one. It's a little bit of a complicated one from Trey Elvis Hansen. And he says you have an unlimited budget to host a TGN meetup with every single Slack crew member. We'll call it about two thousand people. Travel and lodging are covered, and every one of us Hooligans will be attending. So where are you hosting this TGN bash? What food and drinks are you serving up? What song do you play to kick off the event? And uh you are required to have some type of competition for the full crew to participate in and there will be one winner at the end and they will receive a special watch of your choosing. What is the competition and what is the prize watch? And then he closes it out saying I, can't stress this enough. Money is no object. Jason, uh you want to go back and forth on each one of these? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Sure. So where would you |
| James Stacey | host the TGN Slack crew everybody attends |
| Jason Heaton | Well I've I've got convention or whatever |
| James Stacey | with DGN con. Yeah, right. |
| Jason Heaton | Um I have uh you know I'm planning a trip in November to Iceland and Iceland's on my mind and I did take a great press trip years ago with Langa of all brands to Iceland. And we stayed at this hotel called the Ion, that's capital I-O-N, Ion Adventure Hotel, which was about 45 minutes outside of Reykjavik. And it was just it was a stunning, beautiful, very modernist um place in this very stark landscape, kind of reminded me of a you know Bond villain lair. Um and had an outdoor kind of heated pool underneath the the cantilevered part of the hotel, huge windows, you know, northern lights. It was near this beautiful area um where Silfra is, that the kind of the diving location, good hiking, geothermal springs, etc. And uh I I can just imagine um kind of just taking over that place and and having it be the TGN headquarters in Iceland for this trip. |
| James Stacey | Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love it. That's fun. How |
| Jason Heaton | about you? Uh great choice. I would do Vancouver. |
| James Stacey | I do it at the Vancouver Convention Center right downtown. It would be just a great kind of home base for all sorts of s activities you could sign up for each day. Uh while watching hiking, diving, uh rally driving outside the city. You know, there's there's all sorts of fun stuff you could do. And you know, it has a bunch of space there and it's a very beautiful part of town and would be very easy for hotels and all that kind of stuff. Uh, you would need an unlimited budget. I'm not sure that any other two thousand person conventions are being held there. Uh, but that'd be fun. But yeah, that's that's where I would go. Uh the uh the Vancouver Convention Center. |
| Jason Heaton | Nice. All right, food and drink. |
| James Stacey | Food and drink. Well, yeah, I just took |
| Jason Heaton | the easy route here on this one. Um good beer, you know, lots of good IPAs, um maybe some lagers uh for a little lighter, something or other. Um and then you know, it's cold, moody weather, you gotta have good scotch. I think uh sure some kind of old smoky something or other, you know, maybe a uh a lagavulin or a talasker. Talisker I think would be good. Maybe Talisker will even sponsor this. Oh, that'd be great. yeah. Um and then we don't need a |
| James Stacey | sponsor. We have an unlimited button. Oh, that's true. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, we don't need a sponsor. A partner. Let's call it a partner. Yeah. They can just, you know. |
| James Stacey | We would make a special blend for us or uh you know something specific to to the event. |
| Jason Heaton | Man, it's what is it? Uh it's eleven in the morning. My mouth is watering now. I want some I want some scotch and some salmon, 'cause salmon's the food. Um you know good Icelandic salmon or or like an Arctic char or or trout or something like that. Just in every possible way we're gonna grill it out over, you know, we're gonna we're gonna um poach it in like geothermal water, we're gonna grill it over an open fire, we're gonna um you know, have grove locks, kind of cured salmon, um just just lots of salmon and good crusty bread and and that sort of thing. Yeah. what's your food and drink? |
| Jason Heaton | All right. Yeah, for me be, you know, local |
| James Stacey | beer from 33 acres, coffee from Revolver and Turks West, uh lots of sushi. And then I think you know we'd have a special kind of daily menu, ideally. Again, this is the no budget part, but uh some sort of a special daily meal that we do together or you know in big groups of together uh from uh some of my favorite restaurants. So Nightingale especially uh Blue Water Cafe uh you know there's there's a lot a lot of great ones in there. You know, it'd be fun to do like a chicken wing night for all two thousand from Phnom Penh. You know, we we could could have some fun that way. There's a couple good ramen spots that I like in Vancouver. Who doesn't like who doesn't like a bowl of ramen? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Um so yeah, they'd be it'd be pretty much endless. |
| James Stacey | But yeah, local beer from 33 acres, coffee from Revolver. Um maybe we maybe we buy out the I mean I think the room holds about forty people, so I'm not sure how we do this, but maybe they could bring the collection from the Shabin of all their all their whiskies and and otherwise um over to where we are uh for a fun little tasting. Again, nothing's gonna be little. It's two thousand people. Stressing me out. But uh but yeah that's the uh that's the move. I'm interested to see if we pick the same song to kick off the event. |
| Jason Heaton | Man, I doubt it. Um I I I just like the opening bars of um Wish You Were Here by Pink Floyd. |
| Jason Heaton | Sure. If you pick that one, that would be insane. But |
| Jason Heaton | I'm that would be insane for sure. Yeah. I |
| James Stacey | didn't. Mine is from the free music archive. Siesta by Jazz Ark. Oh |
| Jason Heaton | man, why didn't I think of that? That is perfect. What else |
| James Stacey | could we open it with? That is perfect. Wish You were Here's a custom of my favorite songs of all time. But yeah, no, it's it's gotta be CS D. It's gonna be |
| Jason Heaton | CS D Maybe he'll perform in l live. Oh man. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Yeah, maybe so. Oh boy. Um I hope he's got more than one good song. |
| Jason Heaton | We'll see uh |
| James Stacey | and then finally uh finally what's your what's your competition and what's the what's the winner get when they win? |
| Jason Heaton | All right. Well I you know I'm kind of fresh off uh this summer doing the Defender Trophy Challenge and uh I just I I think you know on that same trip I did in Iceland we were ripping around in in classic defenders with big balloon tires you know from Arctic trucks or something um and I think uh I think we're gonna do just kind of um kind of an off-road defender challenge with some um challenges along the way, you know, navigating on foot, um, you know, compass and and map, um problem solving, you know, maybe winching a vehicle out of a um out of a mud pit or something like that. Um I don't know, maybe uh not a ropes course, but you know, just some maybe glacier repelling, you know, some it's some kind of a an all-day thing where, you know, it involves some arduous kind of physical challenges, but also some driving skill um in a defender. Um and and it'll require some cool gear as well. So um and then the prize uh it's it's it's gonna be a watch and I I think I've gotta go with uh with an FXD. I just feel like a Tudor FXD is like the quintessential Iceland watch, I think, on a Gray NATO, um, especially engraved on the back. Um I think would just be uh kind of the perfect move. So there we have it. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | It's fun. What about you? For ours, we're going to the gross grind. Two point nine kilometers almost straight up the |
| Jason Heaton | gross mountain uh slope in North |
| James Stacey | Vancouver, commonly retur referred to as Mother Nature's Stairmaster. Uh you start at about three hundred meters, you top out at eleven hundred meters, uh the average grade is forty five percent. Wow. Uh and it would just be first one to the top gets the watch. Wow. Um maybe maybe we do it in heats because I don't think you could put that many people on there without a lot of people getting hurt and possibly the trail being damaged as well. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I I think all trails used |
| James Stacey | to say it was, you know, an hour and a half. Uh I never got into the 30 minutes. Um I I don't think I ever got that low. Uh and then I think the records like in the 19 or 20 minutes, something like that. Might even be faster. Uh now I don't know how long it would take to get two thousand people down in the gondola. It's gonna take at least another day, so maybe it's a camping excursion uh up into that area. Uh and then and then we all come back down uh over the course of the next day. But I'd be that's the one that leapt to mind for me as far as the challenge. And I would say the winner uh gets the first CWN two serial zero zero |
| Jason Heaton | one. Nice. Nice. That's a wicked challenge. That's rough. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | it's I mean I I I I don't know, maybe I did it five times in my life. Uh and the the best was doing it in prep for baker with uh like scuba weight in my backpack. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh sure. Yeah. Um and that's not you're |
| James Stacey | not gonna I was not gonna make any personal best with the weight in the backpack. But it I it used to be a a great way to know if your fitness was getting better was doing that occasionally in the season. Oh |
| Jason Heaton | yeah. Uh to see how sharp you're getting. But yeah, |
| James Stacey | it's a it's a it's a good one. Um and and certainly there's people listening who've tried it out. It's fun. Good. And the first few times you will be humbled by, you know, a North Shore Chinese grandma that goes by you and has probably done it twice a week for the last thirty years or whatever. Um and and that's part of the fun for tour. You get passed by children constantly. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, yeah. It's a it's a fun one. And th and thanks |
| James Stacey | very much for that question, Trey, all this Hansen. Uh a good one and a fun way to kind of wrap up the questions for this episode. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. All right. Good training, folks. Um, exactly. Me too. All right. Final notes. What do you have? Uh yours looks fun. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. So I actually got this years ago. Uh, it was a gift from Chris Sol. Shout out Chris Sowell. Thank you so much. Uh forever a a good buddy. And um it is uh a device called the Pocket Bellows. And I used it a couple times this weekend and I realized I don't think I've ever put this in a final notes. And I went back and searched and and I couldn't find it, so I don't think I did. And if I did, I'm more than happy to have it on the show twice. It is a little extending tube of metal, if you imagine the antenna on a car that had like the retractable one back in the day, the FM antenna.. |
| Jason Heaton | Mm-hmm It's basically that, but it's |
| James Stacey | a tube and you keep it in your pocket. And when you're making a fire and you're just getting some heat into the kind of the base of the fire, you can use this to direct like your breath, you blow through it to like supercharge the coals. And I just we use it every time we make a fire. I've been using it for years. I I know I've told Chris that it was a great gift, and maybe not how often I actually use it. They're not expensive. Um, I this is from the the one I found is from the Canadian outdoor equipment company. This is the EOG V3 pocket vellos. I have no idea what version mine is. It's a tube of metal. I'm not sure what they're iterating upon here necessarily. Um but, you know it's, nine centimeters when it's when it's collapsed and it's up to fifty three centimeters. It weighs twenty one grams. So even if you're really counting grams, I think if you make a lot of fires, this is a nice thing to have, and and I I it like we'm surprised we use it all the time when we're having fires at the cottage. It's twenty twenty-one dollars. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, this is great. Wow. Add it to the stocking stuffer list for later this year for our |
| James Stacey | Yeah, and I'm I'm just I was really surprised when |
| James Stacey | we b went back and searched and I I couldn't find it. So |
| Jason Heaton | we've never I've this is totally unfamiliar to me. But I mean I've uh kind of used variations, you know, but nothing collapsible like this, which is genius. That's great. |
| James Stacey | It's a nice little product. Not that expensive. Very useful if you make fires. I highly recommend. All right. What have you got to close this out? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, mine's simple. It's kind of a repeat of something I talked about a while back. It's uh it's the latest season of Ill-Advised with Bill Nye is now out on uh you know that podcast that uh that I love. I think um it's you know I've been finishing my days with uh with last week's final notes which uh was the the Martin Dullard episodes on on YouTube, which I find very relaxing before bedtime. And I think uh when I do my morning dog walks, uh I love to listen to Bill Nye answer kind of tongue in cheek questions and and kind of do his band word list and his um you know book club uh discussions and and just kind of some of his wry humor. Um it's it's just a great way to start the day. So um you know I I talked about the this podcast in the past and now season three is out. So um I believe there's one or two episodes available now and they come out every week. Oh, nice. So check it out. |
| James Stacey | That's a good one for sure. A great recommendation. It's nice when there's another season of that sort of thing. So uh it's a it's a very easy and fun thing to listen to. So uh co-signed on that front. It's a good one. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Great to listen to by the fire that |
| James Stacey | you just got nice and warm with your pocket bellows. Uh, but that's gonna be our whole episode. As always, thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode or consider supporting the show directly, which could get you into the next set of questions for next year's wave of questions, the |
| Jason Heaton | thread for a TG and Slack Croone |
| James Stacey | A in the future, uh, or maybe even just set grab yourself a new TGN sign NATO, please visit thegreynato.com. Music Throughout is Siesta by Jazzar via the Free Music Archive. |
| Jason Heaton | And we leave you with this quote from Richard Feynman, who said, I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. |