The Grey NATO – 365 – Cole Pennington IV¶
Published on Thu, 19 Feb 2026 06:00:00 -0500
Synopsis¶
In this 365th episode of The Grey NATO, hosts Jason Heaton and James Stacey discuss upcoming Timepiece Show events in Vancouver, Montreal, and Toronto before diving into their main feature: a comprehensive interview with Cole Pennington, former Hodinkee colleague who now works for Tudor in Switzerland.
The conversation with Cole explores his dramatic life transition from New York to Geneva, including the challenges of adapting to Swiss corporate culture, navigating the country's strict automotive regulations, and building a new life in Europe. Cole shares colorful stories about purchasing a €900 BMW E36, commissioning a custom titanium gravel bike from GIOS Torino (which resulted in theft and various complications), and his ongoing restoration of a 1959 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint with racing history. The interview also previews an exclusive Tudor press event celebrating the brand's 100th anniversary, where James and other journalists will tour Tudor's entire supplier network for the first time—a rare glimpse into the industrial infrastructure behind modern Swiss watchmaking that the brand has never shown publicly before and likely won't again.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Jason Heaton | Hello and welcome to another episode of the Grey NATO, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode three hundred and sixty five and it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support. And if you'd like to support the show, please visit thegrainado.com for more details. My name is Jason Heaton, and I'm joined as ever by my friend and co-host James Stacey. James, how are you doing? I we we we just got just got done chatting a little bit about some uh c uh Canadian |
| James Stacey | um Yeah, you went to like an indie film house and one of the trailers was for an exceptionally obscure yeah Canadian comedy series that now has a movie called Nirvana the Band The Show, which is no Nirvana the Band, the show the movie. And I was trying to explain it to you and I realized the l the more you try and explain Nirvana the Band the show, uh, the dumber uh it makes everybody sound. Uh but yeah, that is a that is a deep s uh uh a relatively deep slice of post millennium, you know, Canadian comedy. Maybe we should stop while quit while we're head here, we're gonna start losing listeners here. I'll put it in the show notes. You if anybody wants to check out a really absurdist, fantastic sort of deeply meta comedy uh series, which I was a big fan of, but it ended in twenty eighteen and now they're doing the movie, I'll' put it in the show notes.. But yeah, we dont have to do that But uh but maybe it would catch a few people. I'm not sure. And also there there's I guess there' mights be legs for that style of comedy in like a post I think you should leave context, like Tim Robinson's show or now many shows that he's done, the the Detroiters and the Chair Show and all that. But uh yeah, maybe maybe maybe there's more legs. I'll I'll definitely be checking to the movie at some point, but I I feel like I I need to go back and rewatch the show. I might give that a miss. Yeah, fair enough. Hey man, it's uh it's like I said, it's it was it was uh it was very like I |
| Jason Heaton | Well speaking of Toronto, this is a this is an awkward this is an awkward segue, but speaking of Toronto, uh you have some news about uh timepiece show season, including Toronto. Yep. Yeah |
| James Stacey | , yeah. So uh in past years we've always been uh sort of putting this news up front as soon as the tickets are available. And I actually spoke with Jason Hutton uh last week and we missed the kickoff of the ticket season for Vancouver andont for Mreal, but those are both up. Uh so much like with last year, uh I'm going to be in uh Vancouver myself. Jason has another adventure to go on and can't make it. Um so if you make it to Vancouver, I'll be there. Uh, we'll be hanging out. It'll be a fun show. It's a nice kind of relaxed weekend as far as I'm concerned. Um, and we'll probably do some sort of additional programming. Last year we had a great party with Marathon at Rolldorf and Co. And if that can be repeated, it will. We're just kind of in the in the planning phases for that. So stay tuned if you're going to be in Vancouver. But that is the weekend of April 25th and 26th. Uh so what I'll be I it gives me like probably like seven or eight days to get home from uh from watches and wonders uh before that kicks off. And then for those of you who either can't make it all the way to Vancouver, want to stay more to the eastern side of the country, um, or simply want way more watches, don't forget that there's now Montreal uh in its first year. That's the weekend of May 30th. It's a fantastic time to be in Montreal. Uh currently I don't have any uh Jason, I don't have any plans to be out there, but if it's something that I can make work and jump on a train and bring the family out, uh I I'm really not going to turn down the chance to get to Montreal, but it should be a really good one. Like I said, great city to hang out in, great city to be spring, early summer in, fantastic food, lots of other things to do if you're in the city and you know want to do more than just visit the watch show. Uh tickets for those are all live, uh to my understanding, and that's timepeace show.com, but you'll also find a link in the show notes. And yeah, so we're continually happy to uh support uh the shows and and their schedule. And I'm already very much looking forward to uh to Vancouver. I was trading some text with our buddy Ken at Arkin about that. And uh and yeah, it should be a good uh good couple of days out there uh at the end of April. And |
| Jason Heaton | then uh then Toronto, uh end of September again uh or thereab |
| James Stacey | outs, which is the same Yep. Yeah, I don't know if the if the dates are locked in, but yeah, it's the it's it'll be that one of the last two weekends in uh in September if. If the dates are up, they'll be on timepeace show.com and uh Jason and I'll be around for that. And you know, if we have the option, we'll be doing a live episode like we have been doing and the marathon party and all that. It'll be a uh not not to make it too casual, but a very much we're in more of a rinse and repeat. Uh don't break what's what's working quite well. Uh as far as the Toronto show goes. That's a that's a good one. Uh if anything, I'll just work on coaxing Jason to come up here for a little bit longer so we can go up to the cottage and have a have sort of a more outdoors adventure before we uh before we get uh get back down into Toronto and into show mode. There's some diving that would be fun to do at the cottage. Ye |
| Jason Heaton | ah. Yeah, and it sounds like uh you know our l our episode last week with uh with Guy Allen from Elliot Brown. They're they're planning on being in Toronto again, so that's uh that's cool. Always fun to see them. That episode uh uh seemed to hit right with a lot of people. We got some good feedback on that. And uh yeah, it was great to have |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I I think the the the main feedback I got was we we'll we can do more Guy. We we would be happy uh to hear more about uh emerald trading and uh you know uh, that era and then you know, m more more in depth with some of the other brands that he had worked with over over that time. So hey, it's always nice as as you can tell from today's title, it is always nice to have people on that that we're happy to have on multiple times. I I gotta tell you, I'm so excited for today's episode. We haven't recorded or I have not recorded my chat with uh with Cole. I'm gonna do that face-to-face in Geneva in about 36 hours uh from when we're recording this. And uh I'm just super, super pumped. So we'll we'll get to that chat in a little while. Uh Cole Pennington four. I believe he's the only one to cross the four threshold. Um and it's been I mean, I think it's like one eighty nine, 190. 189 was was CP three. So CP four is a long time coming. I don't know who knows how long this is gonna be. Yeah. But we will get to that tape, hopefully. Really, really good sounding tape. Uh in in uh just a few minutes. I guess uh before that, Jason, uh besides your uh your indie uh movie night with uh with the an inscrutable Canadian comedy trailer, what what have you been up to |
| Jason Heaton | ? Yeah, I mean it's uh we've had some spring fever here. It's been um sloppy and warm um record temperatures for for mid February and uh I'm not complaining. Uh other than the I mentioned to you that the dog walks are treacherous in the morning because it freezes overnight and then uh very wet in the afternoon and there's a lot of cleanup involved with with Ruby, you know, she's she's kind of built low to the ground and so tends to get pretty, pretty mucky when we go wading through, you know, deep puddles and jumping after squirrels and climbing you know, sloppy snowbanks and that sort of thing. But uh other than that I I couldn't resist getting my bike out on Friday. I'd you know, I've been running somewhat regularly over the winter, but I was like, uh I want a little different form of exercise and so I pulled my bike out and boy that was a mistake. It was so wet and there was just still a lot of patches in the shade where it was kind of icy and I mean it was kind of fun to kind of do something different and just just sneak a ride in in mid-February, but but it was a bit mucky then. And um similarly I I was able to pull out the uh the uh roofless uh old not ruthless roofless old Land Rover the series three um pulled that out of the garage, you know, f fired right up by a few pumps of the gas and pop the choke and and it's it always starts right up. I love that thing. It just it just ri it it just goes, you know. I don't I never even un disconnect the battery. Um, you know, I used to be so meticulous about winter storage when when I had my Alpha Romeo. And uh the Land Rover, it's just I I think they're just kind of built to built to just be ridden hard, put away wet, as they say, and and that's what I did. So it was uh it was great. I put Ruby in the back and and took it took it for a spin a couple of times this weekend and just it felt good. I mean it was a little chilly um driving around with with you know no doortops on and and just the windscreen up. But uh but yeah, it was great. Good to good |
| James Stacey | to blow the carbon out, so to speak. Oh that's awesome, man. Yeah. I uh my the the Jeep has been living at my parents' driveway since September. And my dad was starting it and letting it run and then just in the last I I mean I say the last recent it was probably around Christmas he he wrote me and he's like, Yeah, it's that uh so I guess the battery didn't enjoy that or or something. I'm not sure. I mean there's been some sort of a parasitic electronic problem with all the dumb stuff I've added to the G over over the years and I think a bad ground. Um the G one oh one I've redone it a couple times. Anyways this isn't that interesting. I will have to go out condition that battery and then it I think it will start up just fine. Um we just haven't decided, you know, if it's something that we're gonna part with or, you know, keep kind of in the wing somewhere uh for uh for use at a later date or more often in the summer or something like that. We just we only have the one parking spot. We really don't even drive that much until you get to cottage season. And even then we're just together. So like the two vehicles is kind of overkill and uh and sadly, uh as much as I just very much miss uh the Jeep and you know, driving a manual and all that kind of stuff, uh it just doesn't fit as well into our lives these days. You know you end up treating it |
| Jason Heaton | like a sports car. Yeah. You know, I uh feel like we're going down weird tangent rabbit holes this morning. But but um I this reminds me there was um I've been seeing these ads lately for um and maybe you've seen these uh a a snow plow attachment that fits onto a two inch trail Yeah, I got I got that Instagram simple solution. I mean of course you're you're backing up all the time, but but like for somebody that parks in a garage or you know has the the space to kind of maneuver, I I thought that was kind of clever. I thought that was a really kind of a neat solution for for like plowing a wide driveway or you know, a small parking area or something like that to just just put it into the trailer hitch and just back up and push the snow. It's a great idea |
| James Stacey | . Yeah, it's not a bad idea at all. Um especially if you think you drive into your garage. Yeah. Like you nose into the garage and the next day your driveway's now full if you have a garage.. Yeah But yeah, there's definitely a couple days this year where I kind of was like, well, I'm starting to understand people who have the snow blowers. Yeah. Um I can't do I can't do it personally. Yeah. Um, but uh I I am starting to understand it. We got a bunch of snow this year. So yeah, I did I did get served that Instagram ad of |
| Jason Heaton | uh Yeah, we aren't we aren't seeking sponsors here that w this wasn't paid plug for for this gadget. I just just thought it was fun. Yeah. For sure. What else? Anything else uh new since uh since uh No, I mean I I'm I'm curious, did you get through Night Manager season two? I started it. I I think I watched an episode and a half, maybe two episodes, and I just it I it didn't grab me like season one did. Yeah. Um I it wasn't anything wrong with it. I I think just the first one was just so good, like just the plot and the settings. Um Yeah. But I'll I'll probably work keep working through it |
| James Stacey | . You're you're done with it now? Yeah, we finished it. Um I would say like for me, probably the first couple episodes were the best. Uh, and then it had a fairly sharp decline. I would say that I I like largely really didn't enjoy the show by by the end of the the second. It's like I d I don't know. There's a lot of like themes that felt kind of like I didn't need them, if that if that's the right way to put it. Like just a lot of like daddy issues and and and these like this reoccurring, but yeah, I don't know. Um I'm I'm I was curious as to what you thought of it, but it I guess it doesn't speak super highly if it didn't you after the first the first ones were the that first season was just something else. It really was. Yeah. And to be fair, I I might just this might be more of a me problem than a problem with the show because I believe it's been given a third season. Oh wow. Okay. Yeah. Is my understanding. But yeah, it I I enjoyed the first couple episodes. I love the idea of, you know, the the I d I don't want to give anything away because I would still want people to enjoy it if they can. Um I loved the setting. Uh totally different than than season one, very adventurous sort of setting, lots of great little off-roaders and dirt roads and that sort of thing. Yeah, there's there's parts of it I really liked, and there are parts that felt like they had an exceptionally constrained budget. And then there was some some theme work that I really I really thought they could have just not included. Um and and it would have strengthened the the sort of overall like character. But the ending was fun as well. I I will give them credit for the ending of uh of season two. Maybe we can talk more about it if you get back to it. But uh that's that that's about all it. I got I mean I started just I had very little to do this weekend, which is very rare uh for me. Wat watched some thirty rock reruns from you know a very long time ago. Really sat on the couch and just questioned how they ever put some of those jokes on television, but you know, God bless. Yeah, it was good. So and and and I you sent me a photo of a of Ruby in the back of the series three. Everybody looked happy and sunny and you could barely tell |
| Jason Heaton | it was uh you know mid February. Yeah. Yeah. Winter's gonna make a comeback, apparently, this week, but uh, you know, it's okay. It's it's nice to get a reprieve for a couple days. For sure. All right. Well, how about some risk check and then we uh jump right into this chat with Cole. Yeah, looks like you're uh well suited for for your visit to where you're going. I'll I'll go first though before you uh move into a good segue. I I pulled out um a watch I haven't worn a lot lately, um that I used to wear more often. It's the the Vertex Bronze 75. So this was released for the 75th anniversary of D-Day. Um several years ago. It's the 40 millimeter bronze cased version of Vertex's M100, kind of their classic dirty dozen homage. And you know, I like I said, I don't wear it a ton, but I I used to wear it. I used to kind of used to be kind of a go-to camping watch because of the great loom. Um and uh Alex from Haviston Straps, I hadn't heard from him in a long time. He wrote to me a week or so probably two weeks ago and said he had a new strap coming out. Was I interested in checking it out? So he sent me, he's got this canvas two-piece um frog skin camo um strap that um, you know, at at first glance I was like, eh, okay, you know, I'm not it's not kind of really my taste, but on this watch, it looks really good. It has that kind of same kind of warmth, kind of retro look to it with a the bit of a military inspired um kind of theme going on here. So that's what I'm wearing today. It's uh it's a great piece and I you know, it's it's fun to have a a hand wound watch on, you know. Most of mine are either quartz or automatic. It's just nice to have that bit of a ritual. So |
| James Stacey | I've been wearing that for a couple of days. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, that's a that's a goodie. I mean obviously I'm a huge M one hundred fan. It's it would be on the on the continued short list. I got to see uh Frank's at um at the uh the Thanksgiving hangout in uh in New Hope and just very, very cool. So that's uh that's a winner for sure. Great size on that watch, fantastic dial, all that kind of stuff. All right. And for mine this week, you know, I'm I'm we're six, seven hours from taking off for a a flight to Geneva uh for uh a little tutor press event with a few other outlets and obviously I've I've got my tutor uh Pelagos 39 uh back on the And I can have uh I can have the bracelet on and and yeah, I figure that's the right one. We'll probably have more kind of helpful details and background in the chat with Cole, but I I would like to hear some of it from his his background as it's not your usual press trip. I would say probably the only time I've gone on one like this. Um and it's my understanding Tudor won't be doing it again. Wow. So we'll we'll uh we'll we'll fill some of that in in the chat. But yeah, what else was I gonna wear? Yeah. I mean it it remains my favorite sort of higher end, nice, luxurious tool watch uh on the market. I think the sizing's incredible. Um I uh I like the bracelet. I like the micro adjust it's the timekeeping's fantastic. Uh there was a great thread recently on um on the Slack all about people's kind of pros and cons for the p39 specifically. And it is, you know, be where the the FXD there's multiple versions, colorways, um GMT complications, that sort of thing. And then with the with the 500 meter peligos we have a few different versions of course and then you FXD even goes into carbon and that sort of thing. The 39 remains on its own and as we get closer to the big show in April um I think there's more and more conversations about hey, does this mean we're gonna get the blue one? Will the blue one have a have a sunburst dial? And how what what will that look like? You know, blue the black on the the black dial on the P39 quite often just kind of looks black. Mm-hmm. Um it's it's really just a a very direct sort of sunlight that unveils or kind of reveals the uh that reveals the the sunburst pattern. But I don't know that you'd get the same effect from |
| Jason Heaton | blue, so who knows, right? Yeah, and then Tutor's been playing around with interesting with the Dune colorway for the the r the Ranger and the Ranger's been a bit of a hit lately. Um who knows? I mean I a pelagos with a light colored dial I'm not sure where it would work. I can't picture it in my mind, but who knows? I mean Tudor tutor probably knows better than me what what sells and what what they can make so yeah it'd be interesting to |
| James Stacey | see in my mind these watches really kind of call back to you know the tutor divers yeah uh from the fr from way back and I think uh I think blue in that zone would make sense and I and I also think that in in a realm where we've kind of come what is it even fair to call it Fotina anymore? Mm-hmm depending on the watch. On a on a on a Pelagos, it probably isn't. Yeah. Like the LHD, can you really call a watch that's that decidedly modern? Do you still call the color of its loom Fotina? Probably not, right? Right, right. It's just they went with a warmer tone for the loom. Yeah. And but you could see them kind of going with more of a flat or you know controlled sunburst sort of blue, uh, in reference to something like the classic snowflakes, right? That had that blue coloring. Yeah. So that could be cool. Who knows? Um, I think it's more likely that we'll see an expansion of something like the BB58 GMT into a new colorway. Uh, simply because I feel like the playbook for the 58s is very solidified, black and gold. Yeah. Next |
| Jason Heaton | one's blue. You know. All right. Well, all things tutor. I'm excited to uh to catch this uh this episode along with everybody else uh later this week when uh after you've had a chance to talk to Cole and uh you know before you dive into it you know here's a a hearty hello from uh from minneapolis to you cole good to good to have you on the |
| James Stacey | show it's great i will certainly pass that on to cole and for those of you who might be too new uh to this world uh of course welcome uh it's a pleasure to have you. Cole Pennington is a former colleague of mine uh from Hodinky. Uh he's a world traveler, a strong photographer, an absolute watch and car nerd, uh, and just has become a good buddy of mine over the years. Um, a few years back, he uh left Hodinke and moved to Switzerland to take on a role with Tudor. And I think that was a wild move at the time for him, and I think that that's largely why the Cole, you know, once kind of dialed down. He had a lot of other work to do. We were no longer spending a lot of time in the same place. It's quite a treat when I get to see coal these days. And obviously there's the tutor side of it and and we'll get into that to a certain extent. But really the the stuff I want to talk to is I mean like Cole's one of the most American guys I know. Uh you know one of New Jersey's finest sons. You know was w has has lived all over, has a real love for for like places that I really feel are deeply American, the Florida Keys, um, the Rockies, you know, uh Louisiana and Mississippi, and these sorts of spots. And the, you know, we bonded over having had some shared experience or or split experiences there. And then we did a Road Through America uh series uh for Hodinky uh together in California. And over the years I've gotten to really love Cole and appreciate his friendship and you know his his very specific type of wisdom is the type that I don't possess. And uh and I think I think I'm really keen to ask him a lot of questions about what it's like to to try and make it make a go in Switzerland. Like I think there's a lot of people that love watches that kind of think, hmm, I I I would like I'd be I'd be interested to know what that's like. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and then at the same time it's not like you're going to some scrappy independent or even uh even a sort of brand that's part of a major group or something like that. This is tutor. I mean you've got to fit into a corporate structure uh with with with Rolex, you I'm sure there's lots of uh rules and all that kind of stuff so I'm really curious to dig into some of that kind of stuff. But uh Cole's an old friend, uh a consummate uh you know, hodinky alum, watch writer, travel writer, uh video host if you haven't seen and I'll put it in the show notes if you haven't seen his original um watches in the wild uh series. It's uh it remains one of the better things we've ever produced. Um and he did the majority of it himself, uh, which is lovely. And uh and yeah, he remains a good buddy and he works for a brand that we really like. And you know, he made a leap that I think a lot of people, myself included, would be kind of too scared or too unsure of the risk uh to make. And I think that's uh that's something that I'm looking forward to digging into. So here it is. Uh his fourth appearance on TGN it's Cole Pennington. You were on. Wow. But I do think, unless my math is wrong, and let's be clear, it sometimes it is. I do think you're the only person to cross the four |
| Cole Pennington | threshold. This is CP4. CP four. So that firstly that's an honor. Like amazing. Hundred seventy-six episodes |
| Unknown | . You guys have come a long way. |
| James Stacey | Kind of a run keeping it keeping up with the audience and you pop into the Slack every now and then and that sort of thing. Um, what was it like? I'll I'll just dive right in. We've got a bunch of stuff to get to. First, actually, first, let me let me cheers you real quick. Oh, okay, yeah. Cheers, my friend. Hey, cheers. Good to be back. A pleasure. We've got a drink around our very cool headsets. Cole and I look like a couple of uh helicopter pilots, maybe. Yeah, like or like I was thinking more like astronauts. Oh yeah, great, because they would it just have the headsaber for radio comp. We look cool. To this little chat is what was it like to go from a part of the world where you know you were largely doing your own thing with Hodinky, covering watches, running your own sort of programs with watches in the wild and that sort of thing, and then moving halfway around the world or in some ways all the way around the world |
| Cole Pennington | . We did. And and and it's a good thing you're asking now, three years later, three and a half years later, 'cause the answer during the first year would have been much different, and looking back, I don't think I fully understood what any of it meant because when you when you do this, like you have the yeah, like you touched on you have the first level, okay, the the job is different. What you do for the majority of your time is different. Then there's the sort of cultural adjustments to make. So like you, I had been coming to Switzerland a good bit for work, right? And you think you know a place. But it turns out you really don't at all. Like I thought I had a decent understanding of Switzerland. Right. And to be totally honest, when I was coming here for work, of course, brands sponsor the trips and they kind of put together itineraries for you. So everything you do is programmed. So I thought I had this this idea of what's what's almost like then I get there and like I'm not on a program. I have to make my own program. Life. It's so, so, so different. And it's a s it's a big question to tackle. So running your own thing to going to corporate culture will we'll address that first. Everything, all the rumors and all the mm-hos around this organization, it's all true and then some. That's the craziest thing to me. Like, but a lot of folks are off the off the mark on on a good number of things. But then there's this sort of like uh all right, it's shrouded in secrecy. I didn't know much about it going in, right? An opportunity comes along, you take the opportunity, buy the ticket, take their eye as they say. Then you go inside and then you spend some time and then you finally realize why or you kind of like you do you do become indoctrinated, but you discover that there is a rationale behind everything. So that transition was yeah, at Hodinky I went from like wearing like what I am now, which is a Patagonia fleece. Covered in fleece. Yeah, a little it's called salmon energy. Big salmon energy. And to wearing a suit and tie every day. And at that time, actually, the corporate policy, I'm not sure if it was written down or not, but was like you have to shave. So suit, tie, shave, you you really are like a like a corporate guy. There is a standard to a pull. That has since been relaxed. Uh I'm allowed to have a beard now, allowed not to wear a tie. But either way, like that that adjustment, it actually didn't hurt. Like because I think early on I found a uh sense of purpose and meaning in the organization and contrary to what what we might think of the it's this huge corporate machine, actually your impact on the brand, again it'll never be known, but you do or you can have a real impact on the development of something that's actively growing. So that trade off of like, you know, building fires in the woods and all all the stuff we talked about, you know, like the kind of like free willing lifestyle to now going to a nine to five, which interestingly enough in Europe, which was also a discovery to me, it really is nine to five. Like you don't think you yeah, exactly. And and that was welcome. And over the course of the last three and a half years, I will say I've kind of adopted a more European mindset to working. Like when you work, you work hard, you work effectively, efficiently, but then you take time off. And it actually makes you better. So yeah. I don't know. There's so much I think the the the strategy here will be let's answer the question as we go into it because |
| James Stacey | there there's a lot. I think that's a perfectly good intro. And I think the other side of it is like not just working for Tudor, but also assimilating into Switzerland. Like it feels like a country that you know there was an era where you and I probably would have or not probably would have did sit around a table and tease Geneva about not being as cool as other cities. Yeah, the eight dollar Coke or whatever. But I mean, even just like you go like what is this city? What what's going on here? Where do I have to go to have certain experiences? Are those experiences even available? Et cetera. And then you meet a couple people, like obviously we've for Hodinky, we have Andy Hoffman here in the city, and I've spent like a couple days in Geneva with him, and it's in a fantastic city. It's cool. It's just kind of inscrutable. Um, at its base. You have to somebody has to help you get through like the layer, the first layer. It's almost by design. So they |
| Cole Pennington | say like when you live there, there are two Genevas. One is Geneve, which is Genevois people, and it's their society. It exists entirely in French and it is very insular. Then there is International Geneva or Geneva, which is UN, all the NG |
| James Stacey | Os. That's well that's the idea. Like 'cause it's very agricultural, it's very rural in many ways. Like maybe not Geneva, but like it doesn't take that long to leave the part of Geneva that you experience doing a trade show here |
| Cole Pennington | . Put it this way. I can bike to work in ten minutes, which is more or less downtown Geneva. That's ten minutes one direction. The other direction, like thirty seconds, you're hearing cows and sheep and stuff. So if you think about that, Rolex Tutor HQ, within 13 minutes biking, or even like from there, maybe 10 minutes biking, you're in agricultural Switzerland. And one thing, coming there as a American, kind of landing in Geneva, but then thinking I live in Switzerland, as opposed to I live in Geneva, I you kind of think of the whole country as something to explore, whereas people in Switzerland stay in their language regions. There's something called the Roasti line or Rości, you know, that fried potato thing, where which is French on one side, Germany on the other side. And like when you cross that, it's an entirely different world. And I was lucky to land in this place where I actually didn't see or I didn't have the cultural constructs to I was I kind of you were able to naturally transcend cultural constructs. Because people from Geneva just don't really go outside Geneva, you know, or even the French speaking part. So weekend trips to Zurich, then down to Ticino, the Italian part, which is my favorite part of Switzerland. Um, were normal, but then you you talk to coworkers and they're like, Oh yeah, I've never been to Locarno or I've never been to uh Uri, Canton Urie, which |
| James Stacey | is like kinda like the weird mountain. And like judging from your Instagram, like you're spending weekends exploring anywhere you can get quickly from Geneva, which is a pretty broad spectrum of places. It is. It's uh up to and including Africa |
| Cole Pennington | . Yeah, so there was that that so that was a thing. Driving from Geneva to Morocco. And the idea there was actually to get to So I I know you do this too, because we think alike. But one day looking on a map and seeing this area called Western Sahara, which is sort of like a disputed territory between Morocco and Algeria. Okay. And Leyune is the capital of that. And it's the most remote place in terms of the distance between that city and the next city is the furthest. And I was thinking, I gotta go here. I gotta go to Western Sahara. So we didn't make it. My wife and I packed up the truck. We kind of I I sketched it out. Sketched out the route and found that okay, you can take a uh a ferry from the tip of Spain, Algasiris, which is right next to Gibraltar, which by the way, very underrated. Like I didn't even think about Gibraltar. A good footnote in um Shadow Divers, Gibraltar. Oh yeah, exactly. That's where the submarine was believed to have been sunk. That's right. And and I would say like it's worth going there, by the way, as a side note. Uh it's just weird hearing like seeing those red double decker buses, the phone booths, but in Spain, some people have a Spanish accent, weird place but cool place. And I I went to this place called Toyota Gibraltar on the way there. But anyway, yeah, you can drive from Geneva down to Africa and once you're inside Africa, you can even get to sub-Saharan Africa. And I hate using like Africa as a catch-all for everything 'cause it was specifically the Maghreb region, like Algeria, Morocco, so forth. But that trip was pretty cool. That was a really, really interesting one where like you can do something like you can drive 18 hours in the States and you'll end up somewhere culturally different, but not like another continent. So yeah, anyway, from Geneva, you can do all that. And the funny thing is, I don't think a lot of people do actually. The other thing too, the Swiss franc is everything inside the country is very expensive, then it becomes much more affordable the second you cross the border in any direction. Right. So you get a little bit more mileage that way too. So you can think about it, and this is I would call this like dude math or whatever, but it's cheap. |
| James Stacey | I mean that's that's a good zone for you. Yeah. And I you know, I'm I'm curious, you you make the leap from uh at you know at the time it was New York or Utah, like you were all kind of all over the country in the last couple of years that you're in the States, and you had a variety of hobbies that were kind of linked with what was available there. But you come here, it's a whole different lifestyle. Like you said, it's a true nine to five. Like how have your hobbies expanded? Have you kind of explored some of the things you can do? You know, you're you you last time I was out here in November, not that far from where you live, we drove to France and had a burger on the top of a mountain. Like there's it's it's a whole kind of different scene. How is that kind of reflected in what you're doing outside and spending your time doing? Go |
| Cole Pennington | od, good question. Like the Swiss have their way of doing things. They all love hiking. They all take a week off and go skiing. And like it's much easier in the beginning. I tried to replicate my American lifestyle, sort of a freewheeling way of life, just kind of doing whatever, not planning much. The second you start going with the way they've set it up, it gets much easier and much more interest And I'd say like some verticals in life. Cycling, better in Swiss. Why the roads, the way they separate cars and cyclists, much better, just the overall maintenance of the roads or the respect for pedestrian cyclists and so forth operates at a much higher level. So that was great. Like that kind of went that went up and I became more interested in that and started to to do it more |
| James Stacey | . And you've we'll get to it in a moment, because you're in the middle, but you have a bike that we should talk about |
| Cole Pennington | . Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very cool. And then that connects to a whole nother story. But we'll get there. Yeah, cool, cool. Um other things like for instance, diving, something both you and I are into, actually haven't done nearly as much at all. And that's because you're in well, if you're staying in Switzerland, you're in Alpine Lakes. Yep. Which I hate cold water, I hate cold anything. You do hate cold everything. This is true. Um |
| James Stacey | or you're in like Yeah, we're right on the banks of Lake New Chatel. And I know where you're going. It's wicked cold. I was looking because I brought my bathing suit. I thought it was gonna be more like 10 or 12 Celsius. It's like five. Uh that's for a Canadian, that's that's cold for a swim. It's different for like a dunk-in and get out sort of scenario. For me, everybody's different. Everybody could be cooler than me, but whatever. But there is a also cement shark in the lake. Ah, that's cool. Uh I'll include it. I will say that if you're if you have thlassophobia, if you don't like the idea of sharks, that sort of thing, it's genuinely creepy. It was put down there for divers and it's it's like this very exaggerated sort of caricature of a shark. And if you weren't prepared I think spooky I think you'd get real freaked out if you just came across this in the green waters of new of Lake New Shit. That would be. Yeah. I'll I'll put it in the show notes. It's pretty goofy looking, but also pretty scary. Let's come back. We should do that sometime |
| Cole Pennington | . When when everything's warm summer. Yeah. Summertime. Yeah. Diving not not as much. I mean and you do have access to the Mediterranean and a lot stuff, but I don't know why. It's just is is not as accessible in a way. Or I haven't been equipped with the |
| James Stacey | right Aaron Powell like with diving, it really does come down to having another person who wants to do it as badly as you do. Aaron Ross Powell So you're in another continent. So we're in another continent. I dove a ton when I was in Vancouver because I had two or three dive buddies who were like Saturday, let's get do it for sure. I'll I'll not do anything else on a Saturday. That was before my you know kids were older and all that kind of thing. So yeah, it's diving can be a tough one because it's not something it's not necessarily the same as going on a hike, going on a run, going on a bike. It takes a little bit more. And |
| Cole Pennington | and yeah. So but but this conversation will spur maybe a resurgence in interest and and so forth. So there's that. Then uh car culture |
| James Stacey | . So this one's pretty interesting. Because this has been a challenge for you. Like this is one of the first things we talked about. They have a lot of rules here for cars. You come from somewhere that has almost no rules. Yeah. As do I. Yeah. Uh you can own as many cars as you like. You can kind of just leave them on your front yard if you want to. That's not a thing here. No. Uh everything is taxed. Yeah. To try and make sure that there aren't too many cars on the road, to make sure that you're not causing too much damage to the environment, to make sure that you're not that your enjoyment of a vehicle isn't taking away from anybody else's enjoyment of their vehicle. And that's not really the North American perspective on cars that make power or have fun or slide around or all that kind of stuff. Pollute. |
| Cole Pennington | Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you know, they two things. I've been told two phrases that that play into exactly what we're talking about. Number one, Switzerland, they say, is a coin operated country. You put money in the machine and things happen. So there there is that notion. The second thing that uh that I heard from a buddy is he said Switzerland is the best place for car people, but the worst place for cars. Or drivers. Or drivers, yeah. Like that, yeah. The craziest stuff in the world is here. Like literally within a probably twenty mile range. Some of the most remarkable car col |
| James Stacey | lections in the entire world are in Switzerland. Which is crazy. And they Car enthusiasm is a big deal here.. It is But like Driving like a maniac is not. Yeah. Well no. Having unfettered access to the road |
| Cole Pennington | . You will not believe how many tickets I've gotten. Like it's uh it's insane. It's it's thousands and thousands of francs and by conversion more in dollars. Everything like, yes, you're not driving fast. But in a way, like I came here uh as a kind of square pegging around whole thing, but slowly I've understood why these rules they they work. Like when you're out on a bike, you know, no one's gonna nail you. Yeah. You know? And and that and also you think about like back home like rolling coal or like these street takeovers they do or people, you know, like just r raw hiding these hoops. Squatter trucks. Yeah, exactly. And y and I've kind of I kind of see why that's not great, but at the same time, the American in me is like, well, they have the right to do whatever they want, you know? Yeah, it's a certain type of freedom |
| James Stacey | and it becomes a certain type of art. Yeah, exactly. Um but it is uh often the type that takes away from somebody else's enjoyment of the road. And and here |
| Cole Pennington | , so there is the concor delegance level stuff, and that happens, and that's what we all Yeah, amazing car museums. We see like the outside world sees like the Ice St. Maritz and like all of these crazy multimillion dollar cars and stuff. You really have to look another level or two deeper, but the sort of like TGN enthusiasm totally does exist here. It takes a long time to tap into. And it sure there's a language barrier, but even beyond that, it's so private. Like I think in the in the States it's very easy to connect with other people through enthusiast groups. You just kinda know them through enthusiasm. Here, even still, it's very clique ish. And you really have to seek out like for me, uh the the land cruiser community and so forth. It's there. But like you really it's it doesn't come to you. You really gotta work to access |
| James Stacey | it. Well there's also a barrier to entry for anybody to to like have a a land cruiser versus something else, something smaller displacement, something smaller lighter on the road, that sort of thing. So you can understand that people might be a little bit more guarded about how it plays. That's kind |
| Cole Pennington | of like human nature. And and it's also the the Swiss way is to never sort of put that forth. Like you don't you you whisper, you don't scream about things, right, in general. So there is that. But speaking of small displacement cars. I want to get into this crazy story. Collector mindset. I'm out on a bike ride after work, uh, a loop that I do in my neighborhood. So I live in Vese, which is a suburb of Geneva, and there's a little auto repair shop uh on the corner, kind of like back in North America, like those little gas station repair shops you see. I'm passing by the local garage, and this guy is backing in an E36 to a spot. And this garage Coop Sedan uh compact. So even even you know the little three door guy. Yeah. So pretty rare. Like a the three eighteen T I but I'll guess that it's it's one that was only in Europe, which I didn't even know about. So basically this place is is cool. Like I always look at what they have and I've talked to the guy before. So I see him back it in, I you know, put on the brakes and I ask I go to him, Oh, cool, cool uh cool car. What is it? And we start chatting. So I look, I you know, pull around back and look. It's a three sixteen eye with Alaska blue paint, which is kind of like estral blue, like the classic BND color, and a blue fabric interior. Huh. So blue on blue. Yeah. 316 I three sixteen eye. And I didn't know that this existed. So I talked to him, and again, obviously different uh in French, broken English, da da da my French is terrible. So we get he tells me an old lady got her keys taken away by her children after spending 3,000 francs on fixing up this car, which looks visibly old. Like you could uh beyond being an E36 and looking old, like the plastic trim is faded to gray, it looks like it's a little older. There's some wear and tear on it. So he tells me, yeah, the the children took the keys away and they they want nothing to do with this car anymore. And I'm like, so are you selling it? He's like I don't know, make me an offer. I go, a thousand francs. And he goes, nine hundred and you got a deal. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a sec. First first let me like take it for a test drive. Or like can you show me that it works? Like doesn't need anything. He pulls out the registration of the car, which yes, the birthday of the original owner, is in the early thirties, nineteen thirties and the address is right down the street from me and it shows one owner and throws me the keys, we go for a drive. It drives great. And I'm like in this what an era for BMW I was never really BMW guy but like in this snap second I had to make a decision like is this nine hundred francs which is I don't know maybe eleven hundred dollars or something do this or not |
| James Stacey | at that point it has very little to do with what the car costs and what it what it brings to your life in terms of complexity. So I should have thought about that. Cars are never that expensive, but you have to put them somewhere. You gotta register. Yeah, that's um but but I mean like the the car itself, the eleven the nine hundred francs or whatever is one number. That exactly but |
| Cole Pennington | then the lifecycle of this vehicle is a different number. And and so here you're gonna pay a CO2 penalty tax, but I ended up having to pay a much larger uh tax, which I'll get to in a second. But so shake hands with the guy, buy the car. And uh my wife is away on a business trip, she comes home'.s a Th neerew car. I have to explain that. Like, oh yeah, we we have this pretty cool car. Like, hey, it comes from Europe. It was only sold in Europe, never came to the states. And so it is a 1.6 liter okay. Motor, puts out 102 horsepower. It is a hatchback, but rear wheel drive. And it has E30 suspension in the rear, E36, typical E36 suspension in the front. So it's kind of a hybrid of the two generations, being that it was like the idea was a compact city car that was very affordable for people at the time. Really |
| James Stacey | ? Exactly. The steering wheel, the buttons, the dashboard, that's what we're doing and and a great |
| Cole Pennington | motor, rear wheel drive, a nice gearbox. So it's a five speed or a six? Five speed. Yeah. So this car really fit into that like European zeitgeist, which BMW obviously in the States and Canada and so forth is more of a luxury product and everything. So buy this car and this this links up to the next story, which I might as well just get into. So sure, yeah. Let's do it. We'll start with the bike. B buy the car and then take the car down to Italy to pick up a bike that I had sort of commissioned, so to speak, uh back in July. Yeah, and we talked about this in November 'cause it was just about done. Uh yes, exactly. And then it took some time to to pick up and so forth. Um to get down there and finishing touches and yada yada |
| James Stacey | yada. But I think the b the bike folks in the audience should pay attention. This was sounds like a cool I don't know enough about bikes to be like but w when you list it, I'll write it out and send it to my dad and he's gonna be thrilled. The idea is, o |
| Cole Pennington | kay, you're in Europe. There are great cycling roads here, whatever. I love titanium, as do you. Pelagus thirty nine, titanium everything. Exactly. And uh I Google around and find this uh uh well, okay, there's things like Pasoni, which is like ten thousand bucks for a frame. But uh the idea was, okay, you can buy once, buy once, cry once, right? Like buy the best thing one time and you can have it for life, because titanium never dies. It doesn't rust, doesn't rot, it just is is, you know? So I thought, okay, I'm gonna get a custom frame made and I'm gonna do this once. Yes, it's gonna be expensive, but like let's just do it. Let's do it and let's be happy forever. That's the goal, right? Look around, there's things like Pisoni, which will yeah cost 10K, then there's things at like 5K, but one of the most affordable options and has sort of a deep history is GIOS or JOS G-I-O-S Torino. So Torino and Milan were really the bicycle manufacturing capitals of Italy. You've I'm sure you've heard of Cinelli. Like Cinelli's from Milan. Um Turin, obviously also being the industrial capital for automotive culture. They also did bicycle manufacturing. So three generations of frame builders have existed in turn. I call the guy and I ask him, you know, like, you know, you kind of do like an interview, like when you wanna do something custom or start this project. And yeah, we get on grade, he's cool. And the thing is on the phone we both get stoked and I told him I would like a uh more or less it ended up being a gravel bike. But the idea was just an aggress aggressive well aggressive for gravel geometry with clearance for up to like 45mm tires. So because in Swiss, you know, there's gravel all over the place, farm tracks, mixed with roads. So the idea was, you know, you could one bike to do everything. Like build your dream bike, just get it done with. So go down there and take the truck, but decide to make a little bit of a trip out of it. So we go down there, we pull up in front of and the other thing too is I'd been going to Turin plenty, but pull up to the frame builder shop, and we have our work stuff, clothes for the weekend trip or whatever, in the truck. We go in, I get measured up for the frame, the stoke is high, like this is awesome. Come outside to the truck and um oh yeah, and the other thing too, I brought a couple of bikes down with me so that we can use some of the geometry measurements. Basically, like okay, this works, I like riding this, so let's incorporate that into design. Additionally I was gonna take off some parts and leave them there and so forth. So three bikes total. And and then yeah, two suitcases full of stuff. So we walk out to the car and the the barn door and the back is swung open. I'm like, that's weird. That's kinda weird. I walk around, I see the back window punched out. I'm like, uh do a quick assessment and inventory of what's what's gone. All the bikes are gone. The bikes are totally gone. And I think, okay, whatever. Not whatever. Like it sucks. And those bikes, one was a Van Dessel, which is pretty special, New Jersey brand that I got got bought out or something. But uh my wife's weekend bag with the her passport. Because you know when you go that's always the concern. |
| James Stacey | Yes. You want my pas |
| Cole Pennington | sport, you have to rob me for it, is how I operate. There will be a fight. So the passport's gone, laptop's gone, everything's gone. So we go to the Volpiano police station, we file a report, but it's like the Volpiano is a suburb of Turin, which is there's no English there. And uh it's some whole big thing. We were gonna go back to the States and not so long after that, so we have to get an emergency passport in Bern, yada yada yada. So it was a whole big thing. So there's a big price to pay for this frame. So it better be worth it, right? Like we went through this horrible situation. And uh Yeah, now you're two bikes down. Yeah, yeah. A passport. Three bikes away. Three bikes, a passport, a rear Laptop, yeah. And the thing is for that truck, you can't just get a this is a a a modern uh series 70. Yeah. Modern 70 series GRJ 76. The only modern thing about is the ABS system, the some of the airbags. Yeah, anyway, everything got cleaned out. Then, so that happened, it's bad, right? Not to go pick up the bike, instead we take the BMW. Because hey, you just bought this nine hundred franc BMW. Let's go use it. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, road trip, baby. I I do believe there's something really pure and perfect about uh getting a car. As it doesn't matter how reliable you believe it to actually be in immediately giving it a long distance test. That's the the best way to shake it down, right? Well, also like the worst case is you break something that was going to break in your day-to-day life. That's a big pain when you like have to be at work or get your kids to whatever or whatever whatever your your tasks are in life. But if you just take a couple of days and you go, I'm gonna drive this two thousand kilometers and something breaks on the path, you kind of expect it. It's like getting up to run an old Italian car on a Saturday morning. Like if it breaks, it breaks. It's part of the ownership experience. It's part of the ownership experience. And you didn't, you're not combining that breakage with other stress in your life. That's it's like a it's like you make an island out of the stress. I will take this and sort of fashion my next trip using this advice. I mean I I'm I'm like uh uh we talked very briefly in earlier in this episode about my Wrangler and you and I spoke about the my Wrangler earlier today and I can't decide what to do. But one of the things is I would like you know, my brother lives in the middle of nowhere kind of in BC. Maybe just drive it out to him. Yeah. He he would enjoy having a stick. He has room for lots of vehicles. Trans Trans Canada Highway. Uh yeah, for sure. You take Trans Canada. I mean he he's you know he's near Nelson, BC. Oh, of course, Nelson. And Nelson, everybody knows for sure. It's it's not quite the full middle of nowhere, but you're moving, you're in the middle of the middle of no you know, you're you're on an ancillary part of the middle of nowhere. It'll give you a story. Yeah, I I think these this is the life cycle of a certain type of vehicle. It's like you you if you buy a nine hundred dollar weird BMW, you should put some mileage on it. |
| Cole Pennington | So w one of the times we would park it, it's all good. Actually it starts, it's reliable and it's a purposefully detuned order |
| James Stacey | . It was might have some sticky buttons, but otherwise it should be pretty good. |
| Cole Pennington | And that so I thought. So come out of the car one of the times, stick the key in, start it up. Nothing happens. And and I'm not getting fuel or spark. So I'm wondering, ah, I don't know what this is. I try and do like a quick assessment. I look at the fuse box. All the fuses are good. I just don't know. Some college kids, it's right near a college campus. College kids are walking by. I'm like, hey, uh, can you help give me like a little uh clutch kick start, you know? And like, yeah, can you can you help push and I'll do this? Try it a bunch of times, it doesn't work. So basically, kind of stranded in in turin and uh left it at some that some random Italian shop in like the industrial area. Come back a week later, three hundred and fifty euros later, I asked him, so what was it? Hey it working, no problem. Perfetto. Okay. Yeah. Okay, you take the car. And uh I go fuel pump? It was the EWS system. So it was like a little uh the engine immobilizer had been activated because this chip had uh degraded or corroded or whatever. But yeah, three hundred and fifty euros back on the road, baby. Thirty percent of its per of its purchase value. Exactly. And uh and yeah, and and that was that. And that was cool and it kind of made me feel young again in a way, but also like this bike has been nothing but stress in terms of like getting everything stolen, this and that. So yeah, a new car, new bike. Those are very good. So how is the bike now that it is? Bike is great. So that's interesting, yes. Walk people through the build. We know it's a titanium frame. Okay. Gravel titanium frame. Uh Dadachi titanium tubing with uh also Dadachi uh dropouts. Okay. And it uses so there's two people, two TGNers who have to think. One uh is Evan Perone. He uh he writes about watches every now and then for Warren Round round. Okay. And great dude, he helped me source some of the parts and so forth. And then Justin Satters, our man, kind of offered the the inspiration or how do you go about tackling this? So the build is sham force electronic. Okay. So I'm usually like I love cables of mechanical actuation. But if I'm gonna do this, might as future proof it or might as well do that. And I've never even ridden a bike with the electronic. It's really good. Yeah. I want it to not like it, but it's actually really, really, really good. Is it like the the PDK of of it is? Yeah. It's like snap, like bang, bang, bang. The gears are zzz- zzz. Oh, that's cool. Okay. It's really, really good. And then uh yeah. The the guy who who built the frame only uses Italian parts. I bought or brought him some shram, some American parts. But for everything I didn't have, he only said I can use Italian parts. So it's like uh yeah, it's full sala Italia, again Dadaci, all this stuff, and or Detta, I guess is the other the brand of that. But so gravel build, it's um forty seven millimeter wide tires. So it looks like they're thick and chonky. But it has these Not quite cruiser, but on the way. It kind of looks like that. And yes, it sounds like kinda bratty or whatever you but like if you can get a custom geometry bike it really does make all the difference because I got on it for a test ride I'm like this actually feels different like it it feels completely different. And he took all my measurements and then when I finally picked it up, he had already set saddle height and everything. And I got on it. I'm like, so this is what it should feel like. People talk about like you g you get a professional bike fit and it kind of changes the game. It's entirely true. And then the next level is you get a custom frame, it changes the game. So really, really cool build. So it's one by thirteen. So one chain ring in the front, right, which is I think a forty-two tooth. And then the rear, it's thirteen speeds. So that i and this is really from the gravel side of things, not road, right? Road purists would say you need a double chain ring a front compact or this thing. Ye |
| James Stacey | ah when they built that bike on speed. Yeah. Oh yeah. They did a single front. And as someone who like doesn't like the complexity, I have my bike is a you know it's three front sprockets. And And uh most of the time I'm just I'll just leave it in the toughest one and then use a little bit of the ten or and and like I totally get it. And then it to in my mind it was just like why wouldn't everybody like this? And I mentioned it on the DGN Slack and it just created like a fifty thread of people being like, Well, there's a lot of reasons why you wouldn't do that and why people don't do that. But I think we're seeing at least it made sense to me. It still does. This |
| Cole Pennington | will happen. It w one bye is the future. And and when you ride it, you realize like, yeah, this this is awesome. One less thing to think about, one less one less piece of mechanical And also |
| James Stacey | like not gonna lie, the aesthetics are pretty cool. Oh yeah, for sure. Like it just looks the noise. Yeah. That front derailer. Yeah, no. At least on my simple my very inexpensive bike is quite it's like noisy and rattly. Yeah, and like I don' |
| Cole Pennington | t know. So that bike, Geos, Torino. And yeah, they really do cool work. They're they're more like a historic brand than like a forward-looking brand. But for this one, we kind of push the design a little bit. You know, it's kind of the one tool to do it all. You can throw some road wheels on it or you can keep the gravel wheels on it. And it really it's just the the go to. You could have just this bike. And swapping wheels, not that big of a task. Easy, easy, easy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's a through axle. Right, okay. And um yeah, that's why I would say that. And titanium. So it's a a gata or G A D, I sure know how to say that. It's uh it's a gotta bike like a gotta watch, you know. And how so how long have you been rid |
| James Stacey | ing it then? Great question. Not long. Like two weeks. Two weeks, and you're it's a daily |
| Cole Pennington | thing you get to spend time on? Ride it every day. This is you're taking it to work |
| James Stacey | . Yep. Riding it to work, coming home even in the rain. So I'm doing Strata Bianchi. Have you had like any bike guys be like anyone notice at the office at the b |
| Cole Pennington | ike pool? No. But I'm waiting for that. Yeah, but sure. Everyone is into it. So like I'm h hopopinging someone's like oh yo dude someone has a sick bike in the in the parking lot. We have like a little bike parking lot. And I'll be oh yeah, that's a GeoStorino. Custom frame, you know. But uh no not yet. So you're the first guy |
| James Stacey | to give it props. So thank you. Well that's great, man. I I'm I it's something that like I feel we talked about when you first started the project and then when I saw you in November, we hung out for a couple of days when I was out here for the auctions and everything else and we went to a car show or I thought it was gonna be a car show and then it ended up just being like a used car lot but like a Swiss style one. But then and then we went and looked at um military surplus and we got some foie. Yeah. It was pretty pretty good day. That was fun. Yeah, that was a pretty good day as far as all those things go. The project has been going for a while, so I'm glad that you've got it and it's like you're two weeks in and you're not like I kinda wish I had |
| Cole Pennington | kind of a different direction. I would probably like not park the car there, maybe not take the W. Like there's certain things I wouldn't do, but I wouldn't change a thing with with the build. And I will say put some tint on the land rotor. Yeah. Well, uh it is. It's completely blacked out. Well, I didn't I didn't remember. Yeah, front two windows are clear, but then the rest is completely blacked out, so they just got lucky. They popped window got luck |
| James Stacey | y. But I guess I've only been in it at night. Yeah, you have to do it. Because we had the we had the we had the uh exceptional blazer. |
| Cole Pennington | . That's right That was last out with you. That was that's maybe one of the few running early two thousands blazers in all of Europe. Almost certainly. Yeah. One of one of the coolest things to drive around. You feel like that's and for us, that was like a high school icon, and it really has become a cultural fixture of the early 2000s, like Tony Soprano-esque, like in the American car scene in early 2000s, |
| James Stacey | a shed. Yeah, like Meadows' boyfriend probably drove. Yes. And I want to call it a K series. My brain wants to go. It's the one after K series. I don't know. K series I had a K series. I had an eighty nine, uh two door. Oh with the four point three. Yes. Such a huge motor to make about the same horsepower as your one point six. I think it made a hundred and twelve horsepower, something like that. I I've never owned a vehicle so bad on fuel as the as the as the the four point three V six. Uh good vehicle. Paid a dollar for that one. Full full dollar. Had to sign that affidavit and all that. I bought it off an uncle. But yeah, um whatever the I don't know my GM bodies well enough, but you know, it was the one that be it was also like the the the pickup truck that was quite popular for a long time. Yeah, the S10 Chevy S10. Yeah, like an S10. The later generation of the S10. You could get them with a 5-speed. My brother had a red five-speed s ten in in in uh squamish uh for some time yeah good good vehicles but yeah you you had this one from uh from a colleague uh that you were driving around and it was just you know it wasn't maybe designed for going up and down the French Alps to get to our our burger spot. But we had fun. But it made it and it was good. I would say mostly the I would say the in my mind the problem was the headlights. You know, stock headlights from early two thousands in the in the US were pretty tough. |
| Cole Pennington | Yeah. And that's so we were climbing Mount Celeb and in the Jur uh not even the Jurass. I don't know what they are. I joke, it's definitely not the French Alps.. Yeah Well, actually, it's closer to the Alps than it is the Jurassic. But but yeah, that was uh and in the middle of the night, there's zero like uh lighting infrastructure or anything like that. We did |
| James Stacey | fine. Yeah, it was fun. It was fun. And if you want to have a burger up on top of a mountain next to a very like Stranger Things coded tower, yes. Uh I will put it in the show notes. Burger was great. Yeah, burger's great vibe. And I'm pr I'm incredible. It's one of the few pieces of food I'm really picky on. And chicken wings, of course. Of course. Yeah. I mean come on. Minor wing bar. I mean Smith Street or stay stay at my own house. No mediocre chicken wings are getting past James Down. That's not gonna work. Uh but yeah, man. I mean this is this is uh this is fun. I have it it every time you bring something new up, it kind of like unravels something. And but the other thing that we've been chatting about just today is the culmination of years of work on an on a car. Oh my god. I uh yeah. That so yeah. That so you're getting videos at dinner of uh of our of your buddy and and a guy that I has become my buddy through you, uh Franco, getting getting a vehicle back to your parents' house your parents' place in New Jersey. And this is a cool car. It's a cool car. So I would say to try and keep it as compressed as possible. I'm going to keep this very cool. But like what's the time how long how long have you had this car? Because I remember when you got it, but I want to say twenty |
| Cole Pennington | one. Yes. Okay. Twenty twenty one. And I I remember taking the train home and calling you and telling you about it. Oh very cool. Gray alpha with red seats. Gray alpha blue seats. Oh blue. Okay. Oh maybe it was it was a red uh red uh seat belts. Okay, okay. So the gray the gray blue thing, I don't know if it came from this, but there was Nart or North American Racing Team, silver Ferrari blue seats. And they always use blue seats. So maybe that's what this is from. Uh the compressed version story. I was I wrote a story for Petrelicious, and in the process of that, uh was getting a tour of this garage in Philadelphia that was closing. And I saw this alpha and was just like moved. Asked it for sale? Absolutely not. Not for sale. It's a 59 59 Alpha Julietta Sprint. It's a peach. It's awesome. And a a couple of years later, this was in the late teens. A couple of years later, so like let's say like eighteen, in twenty twenty one, the guy who I was talking to comes back and says, uh yeah, the owner wants to sell the car. Are you interested? So I actually I said yes, not really thinking like totally about everything beyond that. Bought it and it sat in my parents' garage forever. And then I moved to another continent. And again, you and I talked about me buying it, about finding somebody else to buy it. I can't come here because it's too modified, but it has amazing history. It was raced by a couple of notable people in like the alpha world or classic car world. And it turns out the owner of the car actually lives in Switzerland right now. Carol Sprague. She entered it into the Carrera Panamericana in nineteen ninety-three. And then Bruce Trenner,y the guy behind Fantasy Junction. I don't know if you ever heard of them, but they're like a big uh West Coast classic car dealer. Okay. Raced it in career panorama ninety four. Okay. And it became kind of like a thing in the early nineties and it was built by a guy uh in San Diego, uh Rob Shanahan, I think is his name, who also is kind of a legendary alpha builder. And I didn't know any of this when I bought it, but throughout the years, and also there's this guy, Conrad Golden, who uh writes for Haggerty and so forth you might know him as well. He put together a little history of the car and found little bits that I couldn't find. So I discovered all this and I was like, all right, it's time to do something. Got it repaired. And um long story short, it was a kind of hurry up and wait thing. So it needed a new uh fuel cell. Because you know those fuel cells, the styrofoam degrades over time. And someone had let, you know, fuel sit in the engine degrade the fuel cell. So but it was long enough, 'cause it was built in the early nineties that uh ATL or fuel safe fuel safe didn't retain the sketches of the drawing. So we needed to drop it, measure it, have a custom fuel cell made. It was it was a project. And like it took years and years and years. And now I'm over here. And uh yeah, Franco actually drove it under its own power for the first time in since 2008. Dude, that's exciting, right? Uh from the shop to my parents' garage where now 18 years. Yeah. 18 years of sitting around and now it's refreshed. It's stunning. And now I don't really know what to do with it because Switzerland, like we talked about, has crazy laws where it has to be the original engine. This is actually a 1750. So a motor from the GTV. The one to have. The one to have, yeah. High revving, really lively and fun. So it's a seventeen fifty dropped into this, it was converted to disc brakes, they put a five speed in there. So it's really set up for racing and not really for like it won't be in disc brakes. Yeah |
| James Stacey | . Yeah. You and I have both driven uh your former boss, my current boss, Ben's uh Zagato three fifty six. Which is the best maybe the best thing I've ever driven. Yeah, like I in terms of just like pure fun. Yeah,. so good But the minute you need to slow down, it's the scariest thing I've ever driven at the same time. Which, like, don't get me wrong, I've my wiring is poor, scary equals good sometimes. Uh, but yeah, the the the move to disc brakes, uh, maybe there's a purist R No, well if it's actually used in |
| Cole Pennington | competition, like you kind of need that, right? But like that's true. The drum brake thing, you really need to calcul |
| James Stacey | ate your uh You're just constantly leaving a much bigger buffer. Exactly. And then if something's not quite going your way, suddenly without without any forethought, you're a two-foot breaker. Yes. You're just like, I'm gonna I'm gonna get she's going into neutral and I'm using both legs. I'm Lewis Hamilton at the you know at the top at the top of the h |
| Cole Pennington | ill in Texas. Yeah. And yeah. So that car i I need to find something to do with it. And like I would love to keep it and and see and really what what draws me in is the story, like most of the things we like, right? Like this it's been around, it did some cool stuff, it went into hibernation for decades. Now it's ready to do its next thing. So whether it's me or someone else, I just make w sureanna that it gets used, you know? Ye |
| James Stacey | ah. Yeah, I I feel you for sure. And look, uh I don't wanna be I don't wanna gloss over any of this. I feel like there'll be a C P five, a C P whenever we get a chance. Um But we're in Switzerland and I teased why we were here. I didn't tell everybody what the purpose of this trip is. I did say that it's uh it's not the sort of trip I've ever been on before, despite doing this for a long time. And' also its unlikely that I would ever do it again um in terms of the the opportunity to to check out what we'll see over the next couple days as a way to kind of close out the the chat. Yeah. Why don't you give people an idea of what we're what we're talking about and then I'll give them my impressions on say next week's episode. So tod |
| Cole Pennington | ay, this very day, one hundred years ago, Hans Wilsdorf registered the tutor. So literally today, as we sit here, it's 100 years old. Well, we say 100 years young, actually. And that's sort of an excuse to do something we've never done before. It's not directly tied to that, but it's worth acknowledging that yes, today marks a hundred years since the founding of Tutor. So you've been to the manufacturer, you've seen how Tutor watches are assembled. So when you go there, it's Tudor on one side, Kineisi on the other side. Kinesi produces the movement. It's a wholly owned company by the group. It goes over next door and the watch is cased up and basically, assembly happens there. All that and that's the case for every single tutor. They come through this facility, this manufacturer, and the lock. What we have never shown before is everything that happens up until that point. And that is an industrial alliance or a network of suppliers. We call it horizontally integrated or sort of, where everything comes from somewhere. Some suppliers, again, we haven't really come forth with this, but we own Tutor owns. Normally you never, this is more or less trade secrets, it's just things that are never really shown in this world, as you know, it's layers and layers deep. But the idea is finally take you to go see it. So how are the dials made? How is the case made? How does everything get made? So one hundred percent of the parts are made within about an hour to an hour and a half from the manufacturer using a hub and spoke system, right? So suppliers all send their parts to the manufacturer, it gets assembled in the manufacturer. |
| James Stacey | So This is why the the manufacturer that came out a couple years ago, which we did a story on and that sort of thing for Hodinki is in Loc versus |
| Cole Pennington | somewhere else. Well, prior to this it was all in Geneva. So that's a three hour trip to D from the supplier to Geneva. Now imagine it's not hub and spoke anymore. It's like way out far western uh well far west of the suppliers. So you will see throughout the next two days pretty much every single component being made that goes into the watch. As like a nerd f that grew up with how'd this get made? Yeah. So that's the idea. Yeah. It's sort of chronologically follow all of it. And normally in like a independent neurology or whatever, that all happens under one roof. We don't, and that's for efficiency. That's also to keep the best watch we can sell at the best price. So it's it's not necessarily that we want to obscure all of the suppliers and everything. It's very transparent in that regard. However, this will be the first and last time that it's shown. And I think what you'll find interesting is because we've seen it together, you've seen it planning your own, sort of the romanticized image of independent horology. It gets super interesting like anything. Like scale is interesting in itself. |
| James Stacey | So industrial horology. Well so like I I I don't want to be unfair. Like in the modern context there's this Swiss identity to the independent. Yeah. The one guy with his four, you know, uh apprentices making everything by hand. But like the thing that made Switzerland the country it is for watches is the ability to make a really repeatable product at scale. Yeah. And if the demand goes up, the production can go up. And to do that you need partners. There's no there's no other manufacturing like look at the way that a car is made and and you know Canadians and Americans have experienced these sorts of things in the last little while across the border several times. Yeah. Oh yeah. As various things are made. Or when a war breaks out in Ukraine, suddenly you can't get wiring harnesses for VW products. And you go like, oh yeah, it's because this is all kind of spread out. Like network. Other than maybe like the G-Wagon, which was like largely made in grass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh like most of this stuff is like really stratified and and is made where there's local talents for it. And I think when we, you know, the little bit that I've googled around what I've what I've learned from Tutor is like some of these things were really longstanding partnerships that Tutor then bought out when it made sense for the business. And others are ones that haven't gotten to that arc in their business structure yet. So they're just part |
| Cole Pennington | ners. That's right. And and one thing too, again, this isn't really like often spoken about because there's brand communication, which makes your brand desirable and positions it correctly. Then there's also the stuff you don't talk about but are the very central to the identity and goals of the group. One of those goals is to buoy and support the entire industry. So that's that's Hans Wilsdorf Foundation mission. So by securing, we call it you know, financially securing. It's not acquiring, it's financially securing. A supplier, that also guarantees that every other brand also gets their parts. Because you remember, uh again it's uncouth to go into specifics per se, but there was a point in time where um some suppliers kind of like choked off their supply and many people depended on those movements |
| James Stacey | to continue their business like twenty ten to twenty fifteen at uh entry level movements. Yeah. There's like a black market for twenty eight, twenty four. Though that kind |
| Cole Pennington | of thinking, like how can we help buoy the entire industry and make sure because when when tutor does well well let's reverse it when watches do well tutor do |
| James Stacey | es well yeah like it's it's that thing that I harp on that sounds ridiculous but then when you think about maybe it's a little bit less than ridiculous it's like this idea of like a really long play. Right. And like companies that can stand to make a decision based on a 20-year schedule will probably see s more stable outcomes than a company that has to make a decision based on a two-year schedule or whatever. And you're celebrating, you know, a hundred years of tutor, when up, start thinking in a hundred year scale, right? That's the idea. And the idea is really make sure |
| Cole Pennington | to it's not company versus company in the watch industry, it's watches versus something else that people want to buy. Like let's just say like custom titanium frames. Well, it's like we tal |
| James Stacey | ked about at dinner tonight with you know with uh several other folks from our world, like the currency of twenty twenty six in watches is relevancy. People could spend their money any other way, or they could just not spend it. Yeah. And even if they do spend it, how how do you less less afflicted, we'll say, depending on how many watches you bought? One feels fine. Yeah, that's fine. Um, but uh like I think there's an argument to me that like the whole the whole scene around watch enthusiasm is like how do you stay relevant to that conversation? Yeah. And longevity seems to be a major marker in relevancy. You know what I mean? So I get it |
| Cole Pennington | . That's exactly it. Because again, I mean this has been said a million times on a million different watch podcasts, but there's other watching is well, not ones that I listen to, but I only kid there's lots of great ones. Yeah, no, there are. But like it's it's not something you need to buy. So again, it's a luxury. We almost think of it as oh, you need one good watch. Like, yeah, sure, that's true. But fun to have one good watch. Need is a difference in it. Yeah, exactly. There is no need here. So how do you Casio's got need covered. Yeah, exactly. Like of low barrier to entry, you can just get it. And and your phone has the need covered, right? But it's really the the exactly what you said. The long term vision here is to if you stick to one simple mantra, which is create the best possible watch at the best possible price, everything else kind of falls into place. And I think that's the idea behind this. And over the next few days, you will see how those decisions were reached in terms of forming an industrial alliance. And this is going to be really business heavy. Really industrial manufacturing, a little bit of the business of watches. I should be sitting uh sitting across from Angela. Um and uh also a rare chance to sort of see behind the veil because the communication strategy is not necessarily, hey, we have all the this network of suppliers and stuff with it. You don't put that forward. But for this occasion, we will. Just experience it with you. |
| James Stacey | And and look at it through fresh eyes. Well, hey, look, next couple days is gonna be a lot of fun. Dude, it's been uh it's been a little over an hour here, so I don't want to keep you forever. Uh it's been an absolute treat to have you on, dude. I'm such a fan. I'm so happy that you've found a place, even if it is further away from me than you used to be, and you're not in we're not in the office together and that sort of thing. We're not doing watches in the wild. Uh we're gonna do a version of it tomorrow, I suppose. Less wild, but you know Swiss wilds. Exactly. And uh and I'm just looking forward to it. I'm super happy for you, man. I can't I can't be more happy that we finally got CP |
| Cole Pennington | four on the books. Likewise. And I'm I I didn't know that, but like I'm absolutely honored and I want to thank you and Jason. It was almost half the show ago. Yeah. That that's crazy to think. And like now I want to go back engage on the Slack more and |
| James Stacey | I don't know. Like uh I've always been I think I think there'll be some people who really want to see a picture of that bike and maybe some video of you driving it. We will uh gotta get you a GoPro or something. Yeah. |
| Cole Pennington | Amen. I w I would love to. And thank thank you for having me on again and it's always a pleasure and yeah, it's just cool to uh sit across from a friend and and talk and we happen to have this interesting headsets. We should put a picture of these headsets. I could maybe maybe that |
| James Stacey | 'll be the the hero images just that that snapshot you took of you and I in the headsets. But uh yeah dude it's a it's a treat to have you on and there's about ten other things I wanted to to get get to. We didn't even Dakar. No. You got to hang out for a couple days with James Pumphrey and Jesse Wood. Obviously I'm a huge speed nerd. Uh so that that's very cool. But we'll we'll save that for the next one. Thanks so much for being on, dude. Pleasure is mine, and as always, thank |
| Jason Heaton | All right. Well uh as you know we were recording this before your conversation with Cole, so I can't say what a great call what a great uh chat with Cole. Oh, this went really well. This the audio quality was amazing, James. Good job, yeah. But I am looking forward to hearing this. So uh yeah, it's great that that you're able to do this and uh I will tune in with everybody else and and catch it. Ye |
| James Stacey | ah, and a big thank you for Cole to be on and uh and to you know, Tudor for taking us through uh the trip that I'm sure that he spoke about on on the on the recording. But yeah, let's uh uh you know stop playing around in three different time timelines here. What uh what have you got for final notes this week |
| Jason Heaton | ? Yeah, this is a fun one. It's a short um animated film um that was produced and and hosted on um the New Yorker web'ssite, New Yorker magazine. They they have this whole section of their website on on short films, which I recently discovered. Um and this this one is called uh Retirement Plan. And it's it's it's only like seven or eight minutes long, uh but I've watched it a couple of times 'cause it's just delightful. It's it's just this voiceover or or or sort of um I I guess captions about like w this sp specific person, this older gentleman who um you see kind of moving through the the latter years of his life and kind of all these plans that he had made before retirement about things he was gonna do, these really ambitious things he was going to do, you know, drink eight glasses of water a day, learn new skills, travel more, you know, return all the you know, respond to all the emails that he ignored for all these years. You know, and it's just it's the kind of thing that that you kind of chuckle while you're watching and then there's a certain poignancy to it and um and I think we can all relate to a lot of it you know no matter how old you are or how close or or far from retirement you are um you know we all have these ambitions about things that we um we we say we're gonna get to one day. And I think um yeah, this is the it it's just it's just a delightful little short film and and I just wanted to share that with everybody because I think it's it's definitely worth uh seven minutes of |
| James Stacey | your time. Yeah, this is cool. I've I've been uh playing it uh just on an on another screen here while you were chatting and it definitely has a has a a specific vibe. I like the I like the animation style and yeah, it just it looks like he's kind of listing all these all these things that he plans to do and I I assume that the idea is you you're supposed to do them before yeah before you run out of time. But uh yeah. Alright, what do you got? Uh I have two this week. Uh so the the two I'm not sure they could be very different. Uh but two things I discovered kind of in the last few days that I really found some value in. The first one is a pretty wild YouTube video. I mean as wild as um setting up your iPhone can be. Um but it's from this guy. This is E. Uh, he's seems to be a tech youtuber uh guy that I'm I don't I don't follow or haven't in the past. I do now. Um and this is gonna be more for the iPhone users among us, although I perhaps there's concepts that could be shared uh into Android. But uh for the iPhone users, you know, I'm always trying to refine my home screen to be as little as I need to do what I actually need though. So I'm not constantly searching out an app that I don't want to include on the home screen or the other way around or you know have wasted space or not using widgets. Um so it seems like this guy kind of has a reputation for making these really fantastic videos about how to get like the m the the most out of your setting up your your phone for the the lock screen, the the home screen, the the you know, the widget screen, all that kind of stuff. And it's a great video. I'm not saying you'd necessarily sit down and and do everything that he lists, but I learned a ton of stuff in the first five or six minutes of this video about things that you could do. I didn't realize you could just easily stack your own widgets, um, which is a bit of a game changer for for the simplicity of my home screen, uh and that sort of thing. So highly recommend this if you're on an iPhone and and you kinda want to get to the point where you really get to customize the experience. Like you know, I came from Android years ago where you had a lot more options uh for making everything feel more like your own or less like you're being pushed down the certain channels of of experiences. And then the other thing, and I I don't know why I don't some sort of a uh you know uh some sort of a problem in my thinking, but at at one point in the video he says oh I I disable all of my notifications except for like messages WhatsApp and email yeah and I was like at first that hit me as like well you must miss so much stuff and then I said, Well, oh, I I would like to miss them. Yeah. Yeah. So I've gone through and d and turned off all those all these notifications that I was getting from random apps during the day. Yeah. And like it's a little weird not to get, you know, headlines from New York Times, but if I have five minutes, that's that like I my brain can remember to open that app when I sit down. Yeah. And then the second one, like I said, couldn't be that much different. Uh over the weekend I I went down a YouTube rabbit hole of like Irish and Gaelic folk singing, like traditional folk singing. Yeah. And I came across I guess the YouTube thing led me to looking up some Instagram accounts. And then later on I was just kind of ripping through reels, getting a chuckle here or there. And I got connected to a couple different clips from uh Anir music. A-N-I-A-R-A-N might be the pronunciation as well. It's three women, uh, they don't have a huge profile anywhere else. They seem to have TikTok and Instagram. And Jason, I included in the second link there if you want to hear it. Um, but the it's just these short clips of them singing. And I had had this song stuck in my head since I saw the movie Sinners, and that's uh Will You Go Lassie Go, um, which they sing in the film, and these women do a beautiful rendition of it, including a harmonium, which is just uh a hand-pumped organ. And they're just like sitting in the country and and and the melodies and the harmonies are incredible, the backgrounds, like everything's great about this, and it's just very relaxing and and really beautiful. So I highly recommend that again A-N-I-A-R music on Instagram or I guess TikTok. I don't use TikTok, but I couldn't find them on Spotify or YouTube or any of that kind of stuff. It seems like this is where they're where they kind of exist. And then I'll also link directly to their I don't know, it's maybe maybe it's a minute of them singing Will You Go, Lassie Go. Um and that that kind of gives you the two sides. You can you can click around on your phone until you feel like optimized as a tech knucklehead. Um or you can just watch some people sing a very old song. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, that's great. I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm loving this. I think um uh must be something in the in the water these days that um Matt Pycroft who does the the adventure Podcast, he has a substack as well and he had a a a folk uh sort of British Isles folk song themed post uh last week as well. And then um yeah, between sinners and that and you know, remember the I think it was during the pandemic, the the kind of the interest in um sea shanties. S Sea shanty, sure. Yeah, and uh our our good buddy Chris Sowell um plays the I I'm gonna get it wrong, some sort of uh Irish pipes. Uh he started taking that up as a as a bit of a hobby, which is really cool. Um yeah, I I love this sort of traditional music and it it's a nice counterpoint to your other final note. I think it's it's great to have kind of the the yin and y |
| James Stacey | ang here. It's good. For sure. And I mean I I'm down the rabbit hole with Stan Rogers. We've talked about him a ton in the past. You're really only making one leap from you know east very eastern Canada um in the Maritimes to to Ireland. Yeah. Uh and there's definitely a lot of connective tissue for the the music that was made in Canada from the you know the traditional music of of Ireland and and the the you know the Gaelic work and that sort of thing. So yeah, I don't I'm not really sure what brought what got me there. I've been listening more Kingfisher. It might have been that. I've gone down the rabbit hole on a few more like modern Irish bands as well recently. Um all thanks to YouTube. Uh and and I think a lot of it probably is like one step removed from my still continued love of uh triple J and like a version um the the like cover series oh yeah um where then I'll be sitting on the Roku and it'll just keep feeding you more and more stuff and you find some interesting stuff that way. So I've been enjoying it. Um it's very light. If you want to dip in and dip out, you won't go down a rabbit hole just by listening to you know their lovely rendition of of one of these songs. Um but it was nice to also some of you will understand that like sometimes a door gets opened in your brain by a piece of music or a sound and then when you can find its like mate, you can close that door. I I'm not sure how better to describe it, but when I heard this song In Sinners, uh it it felt like I had I had had a home for it or I'd heard a more traditional version of it or something like that. And this this kind of got me there. I had another one recently with um the theme the theme from Ghost in the Shell. Oh. Uh fantastic uh uh anime film. Um, and I had heard this uh like Ukrainian choir sing a very similar like vocal piece of vocal work. I I mean I can put it in the show notes, just if you just want to have some fun, I have it saved. I'll include it in the show notes. I don't remember what it's called or the rest of it, but you know, Ukrainian wild vocal work is also in there too. And it like as soon as I heard one, I was like, oh, I wonder if that's where they got the inspiration for Ghosts in the Shell. And like you can listen to the both, and you can feel some some connective tissue there. I I haven't been able to go deeper. I don't know enough about those two kind of like regionalities of music, Japanese music or or or Ukrainian music, and if there is any natural connection there, or if it's a l one's you know, if if Ghost in the Shell's a love letter to this from just a a person who appreciated it. Uh I'm not sure. But yeah, so I'll I'll include that in the show notes as well. It's very cool |
| Jason Heaton | . Well well we've rambled long enough. Let's uh let's log off here a bit and and uh hope people enjoyed the chat with cole and and thanks for uh for taking the microphones along and and doing that with him and and I look forward to hearing it. Absolutely. As always I'm gonna let you pronounce that person's name. Yeah, I know. As always, thanks so much for listening. If you want to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode or consider supporting the show directly, and maybe even grab a new TGN signed NATO, please visit thegray NATO.com. Music throughout is siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive |
| James Stacey | . And we'll leave you with this quote from Mokokoma Moko no Ana. The degree of our intellectual growth is inversely proportional to the number of people with whom we are still close friends. |