The Grey NATO – 362 – 10 Years of TGN With Mike Pearson¶
Published on Thu, 29 Jan 2026 06:00:00 -0500
Synopsis¶
In this special 10th anniversary episode of The Grey NATO (TGN), hosts Jason Heaton and James Stacey are joined by Mike Pearson, the person who originally introduced them and indirectly founded the podcast. The episode celebrates a decade of TGN while exploring Mike's journey through the watch industry, from his early days as Brand Manager at Bremont in 2012, through positions at Tudor and Zodiac, to his current role as Brand Director at Christopher Ward.
The conversation delves into Mike's philosophy on community building in the watch industry, his approach to luxury and authenticity, and how he's maintained his genuine passion despite working with major brands. They discuss the evolution of watch collecting culture, the importance of creating spaces where enthusiasts can connect, and Mike's skill at fostering authentic relationships rather than just selling products.
Personal stories emerge throughout, including Mike's memories of early TGN days, his family life with his wife and two daughters (including celebrating his eldest daughter Emma's 10th birthday during the recording), and shared experiences like watching Harry Potter films and attending football matches. The episode also touches on the challenges of balancing professional duties with personal authenticity, the changing landscape of luxury retail, and Mike's excitement about Christopher Ward's recent Pan Am GMT collaboration.
The hosts reflect on how the watch community has evolved over the past decade, the role of online forums and social media, and the importance of staying true to one's roots while growing professionally. It's a nostalgic yet forward-looking conversation that captures both the personal relationships and professional developments that have shaped the watch enthusiasm community over the past ten years.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Jason Heaton | Hello and welcome to another episode of the Grey NATO, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode three hundred and sixty-two, which also happens to coincide with roughly our tenth year of doing TGN as of this week. And it's proudly brought to you by the always growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support, and if you'd like to support the show, please visit thegraynado.com for more details. My name is Jason Heaton and I'm joined as ever by my friend and co-host for the past decade, James Stacey in Toronto. James. What's going on, man? Happy anniversary. Yeah, happy ann |
| James Stacey | iversary. It's uh I I think this is loosely as close as we'll get to threading the needle of 10 years roughly right on. It might have been off by a day or two or something like that. But I think I think we're pretty close. I don't even remember if I'm honest because like I said with the SoundCloud change that we had a couple years ago, we lost some of the dates. I don't remember if we were originally publishing on Thursdays. Um I feel like we always the first one might have just been when I finished editing it |
| Jason Heaton | . Well, I just uh the the the reason I remember about a month or so ago, I remember looking up when SIHH of twenty sixteen was, and then our episode was like the week after. And so that's how I and if it was a Thursday, then it was like the twenty-sixth and in twenty sixteen. So um yeah, we're close. We're |
| James Stacey | close. So for sure, yeah. I believe that episode was called All Luxed Out, and I I think that kind of um has kept kept largely connected to the show since then. Yeah. Uh but yeah, this'll this will be a really fun one. We've got an absolutely incredible guest, uh, that that we want to obviously get to quickly. You can't really bury the lead when your name is in the title. Uh but we'll get there in uh in just a moment. Jason, you got a little bit of housekeeping, some updates on some stuff we've been talking about? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, uh episode or two ago, I mentioned that we were out of the 20 millimeter TGN straps that we send out to new annual subscribers as part of our supporter kit with some decals. And happy to report those are back in stock. Our supplier was very quick, turned that around in a couple of weeks, and I've got a full full set of uh of 20 millimeter straps. So if you are a first-time annual subscriber and you've been waiting to order your strap in a 20 millimeter size, we we obviously still have twenty two as well. Go ahead and do that. I've removed the out of stock notice on on the website. And just to remind everybody that um we're still not selling straps separately. These are for uh first time annual subscribers only. So um when you get your substack invite, which is our platform for subscriptions and for notes, that will have the instructions on and a link on how to order your supporter kit. So um follow those instructions or ping us at thegranado at gmail.com for the details with that. And then one other piece of housekeeping also related to the TGN shop. Um we've had a few notices of out of stock orders for the what so-called dad hat in uh olive drab green and uh you know printful I contacted them about why they weren't notifying me about out of stock items and now I'm getting those notifications. So I've put that out of stock on the website and we'll restore that as soon as possible whenever that gets back in stock. But uh you know, if you were hoping to get one of those hats, you'll have to wait a little longer. So that's the kind of the housekeeping or the boring news up front here. Um let's uh we should get |
| James Stacey | into it, huh? Absolutely. Yeah, let's uh let's bring in the guest. Uh really thrilled to bring on essentially the the true founder of TGN, the guy that connected us many, many years ago. Ten years later, we've got we've got the show and it's an absolute treat to have uh Michael Pearson back on. Mike, how we doing? Um brilliant and |
| Mike Pearson | uh complete fabrication. It was nothing to do with me. Two people who are good people need to know each other, so how to booth and you were in the same place but uh i'll i'll take that to to my grave that i i introduced you and that's that's all i can ask for you did the rest it's so fitt |
| Jason Heaton | ing to have you on for this 10th anniversary show and you know, looking at we're doing this w you know, we do these uh kind of chats when we bring somebody else in, uh we do them with video so it's a little more conversational and and fun and you know, I gotta say, we all don't look a day older than we did ten years ago, right? Yeah, right. I've got the |
| Mike Pearson | filters on full on Zoom right now, so You guys look great. I mean I think I I'm just hoping my camera's off. Oh gosh, no, you need to see that. Yeah, yeah, I really Yeah, well it's chilly here. Your style has grown and event and developed into something really special and uh it suits you down to the teeth |
| James Stacey | . Aaron Powell If we're gonna be so navel gazy to talk about the show pre for uh an entire episode. Uh Jason and I don't normally have our cameras on. We just talk into the boy. Uh it's it's it's uh it's it's very boomer phone call for him and I. We just kinda like pick up and start the conversation where it ended, you know, a few days ago. Uh eventually we'll just record these from our our giant lounger chairs and and you know, it'll be uh it'll be a little bit less official. But yeah, ten years. It's uh it's an interesting thing. Congratulations by the way. |
| Mike Pearson | I I I from from my side, just to just to to know you've done this for that long. You know, it's meant a lot to not just me, but so much in the community and just I think it was a couple of weeks ago, I managed to meet a group of TGN uh enthusiasts part of the Slack group, and they feel like you're part of their family. You've meant so much their daily lives. And so uh for what you've done for 10 years, yes, you you talk about watches, you talk about what you love, but you add so much to people. So I just wanted to say on behalf of everybody listening today, congrats and thank you. It means to the world. Well, thanks, M |
| Jason Heaton | ike. That's uh it means a lot. And uh, you know, you've been there all along and I think um I I think it it's not only fitting that you're on the show because it's largely responsible for introducing us, but um you know, you've I feel like you're kind of a brethren spirit in the way that you foster community as well. You know, I remember way back in those early days, maybe even before you introduced James and me, you know, you coming to Minneapolis with Braymont and organizing local events and kind of fostering the local community here and and I you know, we can get into this further as we move into kind of our quote unquote main topic, but um you're a you're just such a big community booster and I think that's that's what we're all about as well. So very fitting to have you on the No, thank you. No, it's I I like being with the people. Yeah, yeah. Sure. Clearly. Yes, yeah. You're very much uh |
| James Stacey | suited for for your work and do a great job at it. I think in the in the Malcolm Gladwell context, you know, Mike, you're a natural connector. Yeah. So I I think it we were we were very lucky to have been connected. Um I I think I think my my original if we go back far enough, sort of my original crossing paths with Jason was digitally through I think Paul Hubbard, who sold or bought your first Pelegos. Yeah. The first Pelegos, a 500 meter Pelegos, way back. I mean, we're talking 2013. Probably. 2014, something like that. Uh shortly at you know, I guess the Pelegos was 20, 20,, 2 tw0enty1 th3irteen by the time it hit market, so somewhere just after that. And uh and yeah, it's gone from there. And I mean the the the show I would say for the most part exists because we haven't found a reason to stop making it. Or at least uh uh the reason to stop making it hasn't persisted. Perhaps we can get to that uh, you know, w when we dive in. Uh Jason, do you wanna get into all the all the chit chat or you just wanna skip it for this this episode? Yeah, we can skip it. I mean, I'd I'd love to |
| Jason Heaton | hear, you know, some catch up from Mike, but you know, he's on the show. This is our this is our time with Mike, so let's all let it all run together. But um we should do a risk check. I think that's appropriate. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, as we do. All right. Uh Jason, how about you go first? Yeah, I've got the CWN one on. Um, you know, I've been flip-flopping between that and the FXD a lot lately and uh I I it's just been it's just been kind of a go to for me. Um I it you know, I I think I mentioned that I've been taking a uh this kind of strength class twice a week, um which which I'm I'm loving and I can go into that at another time, maybe not in this episode, but it's been it's been really great. Um but this was proven to be a great watch for that. You know, a lot of the the kettlebell swinging and the you know, weights and rowing and bench presses and stuff like that. It's uh it's just been kind of such a nice lightweight, you know, quartz watch that's kinda well suited for for those sorts of activities. So I've been wearing it a lot for for that reas |
| James Stacey | on. That's great. Yeah. I mean obviously a natural choice. Um, not what I wore this we Mike, what have you got on for uh for the show? Sure, |
| Mike Pearson | with with all in my head, there's always uh a million different thoughts, but today probably more than anything, not just because on I'm with you, but today is my daughter's tenth birthday, my firstborn daughter. Fantastic. And so she was born right around the time that TGM. Oh my gosh. This you've got to you've got to know both of you. This is your podcast, our meeting, my daughter, what I did, what I do now. Yeah, that 10 years, and I know that it's been on social about what were you doing in 2016, my life was changing, my my mindset was changing, everything about my professional person, my my outlook on personal life, my wife having a having a baby. Actually she was my my my fiance at the time. We were living in sin. So but when when we found out uh we were pregnant, it was no chance of eloping to Vegas where she told me she was pregnant. But yeah, uh today is is Emma's birthday and she's been a huge reason why I I am what I am and I do what I do. Um but obviously with with this show I, I have a CWN one, a newly acquired one. I saw everybody at my event in uh the CW Virginia show and wearing them and I asked you guys if there was one around and luckily you had one. Opened the box uh three days ago and it was blown away. I can see what all the hype is about. It actually is that good |
| Jason Heaton | . We're thrilled that you have it. I mean if anyone needs one it's you um you know with so yeah, congratulations. Yeah. Happy to happy that |
| Mike Pearson | you like it. No, it's fantastic. Package is great. A strap color was a good choice. I don't know where you got that from. So |
| James Stacey | I mean sometimes we get lucky. But yeah, happy, happy of course for you to have one. Thank you. And uh and we'll we'll get into the whole run because you know over over the span of of the show uh you've been with several brands. |
| Mike Pearson | It's kind of on the line with what I've saying with the risk check because if I was gonna be the brand director that I am, I should be talking about the the orange lumière which is on my wrist at 41 millimeters. I love this what and I do and I wore it all summer. But on Emma's birthday and on my other daughter's birthday, I always wear the watch that they were they were born in. I was wearing my Brahman Norton. And so that was a big part of why you and I and James are so close. Obviously, that brand uh was something special to me, special to you. It's different now, but this watch uh shows that time really matters, and I wore it when both my girls were were born. So I'll I'll wear this throughout the day. But for the show and to be on brand I have my CW Numier, but this is a special watch |
| Jason Heaton | for me. I forgot about that Norton. Yeah I I do associate that watch with you. That's a great piece. I'm so glad you still have that. That's great. Yeah. We remember the first one got stolen. Oh, that's right. Oh, there's a tale |
| Mike Pearson | . Oh my gosh. In the Bahamas. And I had my nickname on the bat, Billy Wys. If anybody is ever in Nassau and goes to a pawn shop and finds one, have a look on the case back. But this has Billy Wiz 2 on it that Nick English uh had scribed to one of one. Amazing. That |
| James Stacey | 's great. All right, James, you're up. What what do you have on? Uh yeah. So I'm wearing what for me kind of hits as the evolution of my taste on the show is my slow and and not necessarily progressive, but kind of in leaps and bounds an uh an interest in kind of weird anti-diggy quartz watches. And uh a couple of weeks ago, you know, I was really fighting to to not buy any watches for a little while this year and I got this in a trade. So I didn't buy anything. I did buy something else. We'll have to talk about that next next week because I should have it by then. But I'm not I'm not taking any guff for that on this episode. That's for next week's episode. This episode I traded with uh with a fellow who we've known for a long time, Foglark, on uh on on the s on the TGN Slack, and he had a uh it's it's probably like a early two thousands example of a citizen aqualand duplex. So it's not I I don't think it's nearly as cool or as sort of pretty or interesting as a standard Aqualand. But of an era, especially the era that I first got into watches, I had sort of the version of this watch that didn't have any of the screens. This has always kind of been on the radar and and you know when one of these kind of finds you you kind of go for it. I wouldn't call it pretty. It's got these this kind of the most weirdly skeletonized hands possible, such such that they don't get in the way of the screen, but also it makes the loom almost useless in the dark. It's got two screens. Uh, it feels like a bit of an evolution of a standard Aqualan, which of course has the single sc And then this one's in titanium. And uh and when when we worked out a trade, I was like, I don't know, you know, maybe I have it for a little while and and I move it along or it goes to a brother or or I find someone who would really love something like this and man, I got it and put it on a NATO and and I haven't really taken it off. I really, really like it. It's uh it just kind of captures what I still like about watches that you can find something that feels like it has a lot of character and and it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to cost a ton of money. Not everything has to be an icon uh to be a lot of fun. And uh and for me I I think that this this kind of connects me to a lot of what I first kind of found interesting about watches. Um but with the titanium and the antigy it kind of it kind of also marks the evolution. Well it's such a great choice and I I think um |
| Jason Heaton | I was thinking about this the other day. Um I don't know where I was headed with it, but um you know I I know you through our years of doing various things um and and mainly through our relationship on TGN and I just I I had to chuckle to myself that that the editor-in-chief of the premier watch publication in the world that is consistently writing about all these you know langas and paddocks and whatever else is such a devotee of analog digital watches. I just I I I love that. I think um I think that's what what our audience likes about you and and you know it's I just think it's uh there's a story in there somewhere. I just I love that um you you you you stay true to your roots with with all of that despite you know your your day job. It's kinda like I don't want to call it slumming because I don't think a watch like that is slumming at all. I think that's not how I see it. Yeah, no |
| James Stacey | way. We've really seen this topic come up on the Slack. I've seen it kind of in various elements of of you know, watch social media that like there's a difference between having to own something and being able to enjoy it. Yeah. And there's so many watches that you know my my now arc interior arc with Hodinki over the last less than a decade. Um I've gotten to see some some of the world's greatest watches, some of the most expensive watches that will ever exist. And like, sure, they're nice. I I don't know that I necessarily pine for them the way I might uh uh you know a Bulgari Diagano quartz CH35 on eBay or uh or an aerospace or something like that. And I and I think a lot of this is like I've I've kind of found over the over the years, I've kind of found my home in what I would call the the nicer kind of builds, whether it's whether it's a Pelagos, whether it's um the CWN one uh and that sort of thing and then you know some some of these ideas or or it was in reference to that insane car that the that Neil from Disc Common has that that uh Henry drove you know it's a good like sixth or seventh car. And like I I kind of think like an uh somebody's 20-year-old dove. I mean, I got photos from the previous, previous, previous owner of them actually diving it. It was probably bought on like a a cruise ship or something like that. And uh and I think I think in the guise of like a sixth, a seventh, an eighth, or a fortieth watch, whatever it may be, uh it it kind of works for me in that in that way. Which once you kind of have the basis covered for for the more conventional stuff. Some of this is really fun. And not so expensive that you gotta worry about it in any way. Do |
| Mike Pearson | you still have uh the ability to kind of stay central with all of the craziness around the Hadinky world to what you'll do every week with Jason. Uh do you do you have a a foot in both camps or do you have to put a different hat on depending on how you're thinking? I I'm not sure I understand the question necessarily. So when what's the distinction? Yeah. So I mean I I was thinking as you were describing the watch you were wearing, I feel the same way. You are, I mean, I've been to the Hedenki offices, I've been to the events, we've we've seen the auctions and the the opulence and the money and the vintage to the new. But then you your face when you're pulling up that watch with those hands as as funky as they are was James from fourteen, fifteen years ago. I mean, I think it's a brilliant, brilliant trait that you've got. But do you feel like you have to change hats to to get |
| James Stacey | into the gears? I don't think so because I I I don't think that'm where I am at Hodinky because I have incredible watch taste. Mm-hmm. Um I think it's because I have a very specific perspective on how watch content should hit an audience. That's fair. I've had this audience enjoy what I do. I've had them hate what I do. And it's been a learning process. And I think that the reason that I have the job I have now for as long as I have it, who knows? Is is because, you know, I'm not great at spreadsheets. I'm not necessarily great at understanding uh budgets or uh or you know filling out paperwork and all that kind of stuff. Um but but I I think I do I can look at a story and go like the what who does this serve? Why does it serve? Why does it exist? Um will will somebody get get the value out of it? And and I don't I don't genuinely believe that any one aspect, any one vector of watches serves the best audience possible. You kind of have to be you know, it's uh like imagine eating at the same restaurant every day. Oh yeah. Even if the food's amazing. I I'm sure there's a type of person who maybe maybe that's the Patek collector and that's the only thing they're interested in is a 15-year window of Patek. And that's fine. I'd I'd be I'd be happy to to figure out a story for that reader, you know, one in 20 stories or something like that. But you know, we have we have a cafeteria of of topics that we can kind of dig into. And sometimes it's silly quartz stuff that doesn't have to cost a ton of money. And sometimes it's, you know, really insane stuff on the other end of the spectrum. The nice thing about Hoodinky is it has that if for me is that it has that breadth. So I'm always learning. I I think if I was only doing TGN or if had only done TGN for the last uh several years, it would have been it would have kind of limited that that scope on on only being kind of my taste and I have kind of conventionally but also kind of weirdly n nineties kid taste in in in in watches. That's never going anywhere now. No, I don't think so. I mean I come by it honestly, these wh and these watches find me now, which is great. Not not many things you could do to to change that. I think at a certain point you can put on airs, you can try and try and play into another market. I can spend a lot of time learning about something to be able to write about it, but I'm still writing about it from the perspective of the guy that likes the citizen, the tutor, the and I I I like a Patek here there, but I've I've long since understood I, won't be the owner or the steward of such a watch. So it is what it is. You can be the storyteller on it beautifully. I think so. Or or even just a vector vector to make sure that somebody like uh Mark Koslerich or a Tantan Wang or an Andy Hoffman can take their what they're excited about, which is very different than what I'm excited about, and put it in front of our audience. The audience, at least the commenting part of the audience, which is a s a sliver in our in terms of our traffic, but the one that they don't always understand it' nots every story is going to be for everybody. Yeah. And most of these stories aren't even for me. It's you know, the idea is to is to support the interest in watches as broadly as possible. And and I would say the idea is different with TGN. It's more just like what are Jason and I into for the most part. What are we exploring? And |
| Jason Heaton | it works. Well, you know, we've we've kind of jumped into the deep end here already, but uh I don't think I don't think we need to introduce Mike, right? I mean Mike and everybody knows Mike. Mike, uh |
| James Stacey | just I don't like it. Mike's a longstanding friend when we got to know him. Mike, your official your brand manager at Brand Director. Brand director Chris Ford. The the Brahman was a few years ago. Right, no, no. That's what I mean. When when we met when we met. Uh I was trying to remember I thought it was brand manager for North America, but I could have had that wrong. I don't still have the email for the first hangout you invited me to in Liberty Village in Toronto. Yeah, that's right. I was living in Hamilton at the time, would have been just before you loaned me an S500. Yeah, but you you rocked that S5 |
| Mike Pearson | 00 hard. And uh yeah, but that back in the day, the titles, I mean, I would just kind of say I'm the gentleman that you'll speak to. But yeah, I think it was brand manager. Sure, sure, sure. In the end, we all sell stuff |
| James Stacey | . And and then obviously you've you've moved from Braymont on to uh quite a successful position with Christopher Ward. And I want to get to that evolution, but I thought where it might be fun to start is what were we all doing in 201 |
| Jason Heaton | 5. Okay. Hold on. Before we get into that, let me go back to 2012 because I just looked at an email. Oh no. My I was looking through my old emails and my first email to Mike. This is wild. February twentieth, twenty twelve. Hi Mike. Jason Heaton here from Twitter. Twitter. It occurred to me we haven't really featured Braymont on Gear Patrol before. I'm overseeing Gear Patrol's timekeeping section these days and I'm planning an aviation themed photo shoot in New York in early April. I'm rounding up pilots' washes to shoot and write up blah blah blah blah blah. If you've got one you can send for a long term review and for use in the shoot it'd be great. Otherwise if we can have one to shoot for a week in April, that's great too. Let me know what you think. That was my first email to you and then you wrote back the day after the same day. I would love that. Um, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, it's great. And it was Michael Pearson, North American Brand Manager, Braymont Watch Company. Twenty twelve. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. And by twenty thirteen, this is why we have some. So it was brand manager. The email I have from twenty thirteen, January. Oh, I am so old. Uh director North America. Oh, I got a little bump up on that one. That's good. I like that. That's very good. So there you go. Let me that that explains some of the confusion. So we know what Mike was doing. You were you're helping introduce a very British brand led by two extremely British guys uh to the North America market. And that's how we met was at a at a a restaurant, uh Liberty Liberty Village Inn, Liberty Village Pub, something like that. You liked an IPA even back then, yeah. Oh I I almost |
| Mike Pearson | certainly didn't. I didn't uh I didn't know. I No |
| James Stacey | ? You had a weird beer, I'm sure that 'cause I can't I was a Guinness drinker. Still I'm to the It's definitely possible I was either drinking like a whiskey or or like a diet coke. Or possible possibly it was both together, which is way more embarrassing than anything else I could list. It might have been like a rum and coke. I don't know. |
| Mike Pearson | You were definitely a a a a younger, a younger s uh side of yourself. Sure. But you had this knowledge and this passion of talking. I was I loved it. I was like, oh this is this is great. And I never forget. I think we've I think we've talked about it before that S500 was a a catalyst, but it was the world timer that you reviewed that I used for years because your explanation yeah I thought it was a great watch, but the way you explained it kind of showed your expertise of what was coming. And you did uh high definition camera work probably better than anybody else at that kind of level that wasn't on like a professional scheme, but you you taught me what was possible in this community for sure. We we did a lot with with because I was with a blog |
| James Stacey | to watch at the time and that was largely Was it the one before though? What was the one before Block to watch Watch Report was with the S5? I think it was that one. Yeah. Yeahah, ye. And at the time, I mean I didn't like Christian's not listening to this. I I would love it if I found out that Christian did listen to this. The guy that owned Watcherport and gave me my first job. It was ten bucks a story. Later thirty. Um by the time I left uh,, you know, they sold to somebody who was there more for SEO. And now I don't really know who owns the site uh currently um but I believe it has changed hands. Um but that yeah, that would have been I it would have been mid twenty twelve um that I went to a blog to watch because it was when I moved to Vancouver. Was it a blog to read back then or was it a blog to watch? Uh I I think it might have been right around the switch. I d I genuinely I don't remember that. But yeah, for those listening who haven't been around in the space that for so long, a blog to watch was at one point a blog to read dot com. So and also Amazon used to just sell books. They did at the time. At the time, yeah, for sure |
| Mike Pearson | . And did I ever send you a pilot watch, Jason? Or did or did we go straight to dive? I can't remember if I sent you a pilot watch. |
| Jason Heaton | No, no, we d I remember we did there's a there's an old airfield in east of Manhattan, I don't know if it'd be the Bronx or something. It's a historic airfield, I believe, where Lindbergh took off when he flew to Europe, across the Atlantic or whatever. Anyway, there's some gold planes in this giant hangar. And I went with uh Eric Yang from Gear Patrol and and a couple of other guys to shoot some photos. And you provided, I believe it was an MB two. I think at the time two actually. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if that story still exists. But yeah, 20 2012. That's I'm you know if we're looking back, I mean we're now we're pre-decade before T Gen was even a glint in our eyes or in your eye, Mike. Um, you know, I think uh you know I was I was at Gear Patrol as I as that email said, I was overseeing that the quote unquote timekeeping section of Gear Patrol and I was writing for Hodinki at the time and um regularly. And I always but I always associate |
| Mike Pearson | you not with the MB2, it's more of with the uh the S2000 because I never forget me and Nick had a big argument in Miami about what the size of that watch should be. I'm like if you're gonna go 2,000 meters, go big. So we went big. Yeah. When it came out, you were doing an ice dive and you went to the Bahamas in the same week. Yeah. That lived with me forever as well. Yeah. Yeah |
| Jason Heaton | . And the pictures. Yeah. Oh man. Such such memories. Jeez. Crazy days. You know, over the past 10 years or more, um, I I'd I'd love to hear your impressions or what you've learned or how you would compare, not in good or bad you know, language, but um the brands you've worked for. You know, you you it's been an evolution of your career, but you've seen, you know, Braymont, which had a very specific vibe, and then you went to, you know, you were with Tudor for a short time, but then you did this stinted Zodiac that was really your pride and joy, and you really did a lot with that brand and and um of course uh CW and and I'm I'm just curious how you'd compare your jobs at each of those brands and kind of what you learned or or what how you would talk about each of those brands. Oh you know what |
| Mike Pearson | it's such a evolution, revolution. There's uh there's there's heartache and and wonderful stories there's also as i said family at the end of it uh when i was with um ramon for so long it was always nick who was like you call me Billy Billy come on settle down, find a girl. And I knew in my head, the minute I find someone who, you know, could replace what I had in terms of the love for the brand, that something's had to change. And there was never any room for Brahmon. So when I met my now wife, we're we're coming up to our 10th anniversary this this Christmas, by the way. Um nuts. Oh, wow. But as soon as it happened, it was a very, very quick um kind of mindset change because at that time um we moved to New York City. We opened up the Brahmont uh boutique on Madison Avenue. And then if we're being really honest, uh Brahmont had some some issues, some issues. And I had to basically get on the road for about six weeks. I didn't go home. And I looked at my because it was my an apology tour, but it was a letting people understand that what the brand is, what it stood for, what I'd grown meant something. We talk about community, we talk about activations. It was trust. And I didn't want anyone to lose trust in the brand, but also me, but also I want them to know what that brand could still mean to their collection. So it was always very personal, and it'll always be very personal to me. I'm I'm always all in or not at all. But as soon as I realized that actually there's this really wonderful girl back there and I'm not seeing her, things, things have to change. So we um I I quit and it I I'll I'll always admit that it was the saddest day of my life walking away from Brahmont at that point. But it was also the right thing. Um, you fast forward a bit, you you went back. I get I went back. And I always say if you if you fall out of love with something where you break up a relationship, you should never go back. You you left for a reason. But the reason in the end that the the second stint didn't work out well was what we all went through which was was COVID so uh it was always that thing of how do you how do you reinterpret how do you find your voice when you've given so much of who you are uh personally, uh professionally, socially, you know, I definitely am on social media and have used the all mediums to to benefit, but also as a touch point to the community. But in between, Brahman, you know, you I tried things new. I I was a store director, but I got picked up quickly by Tudor. And if you were if you were gonna ask me the learnings of all of the years, that was a really wonderful compliment to who I am and what I am. But also in the past, I had turned down some of my favorite big brands, um, Omega for one, and some of the other big boys had come along. And I I always thought, well, what if I'd have said yes? But I do also have this mystique of I love the speed master. I love what the seamaster means to us. I I, you know, think of all these great brands and the stories that I associate. When you get too close to the surface of the sun, sometimes you can feel the heat a bit closer than you wanted. And with Tudor, I feel like that the personalities just wasn't married. I'm I think if you were gonna really ask what I've learned in all this time is I can only do me and I've got to be with people and places and brands that I can build, that I can grow. Then you know, you kind of gotta let me just fly. Nick's and Giles' um big genius was the fact that they really had no idea about the US. And if I was really honest at the time, neither did I. I'd been here for a few years, but I really got my teeth into the watch industry and the the duty-free market. I understood those cruise ships and those passengers and telling a story about where to shop ashore. But Ramon, it was like, right, let's uh let's find some pretty good retailers in across America and had no idea where to go. So I followed the Detroit Tigers. I literally went to a city, saw the Tigers play at nighttime, but during the day, find the three retailers that would sell, you know, Bell and Ross at the time, IWC when they were doing Value movements, like priced washes. And you you were going old school as in Let Me Tell You the Story. And I learnt so much resilience about myself. But the best thing about it is everywhere you went, there was a fledgling internet. There was a red bar crew that was waiting to be born, or uh or kind of given the chance to have a you know a get-together for something of meaning. And I really took those early days of learnings as a as a really young man at a country in a country that was very new to me. And I'll say this really personally, at a time I was really on my own as well. I I had no relationship. I had no family here. So the friends that I made, the the interactions, a beer with you, James, a uh a curry with you, Jason, like they meant more to me than I can ever tell people because those trips weren't work-related, they were uh life gratifying. I I was growing as a person and and I I fell in love with the States through baseball, music and food. But as you say, most certainly watches. But um when when um when COVID happened, you you pivot, you're like, actually, you know after all these years in watches is watches me should it be another brand that wants to take this energy and I know what I I offer but is it going to be the same thing again, are you going to be doing brands that aren't going to see you as a the the person that you are? Or are you going to be given the freedom to grow as you feel? So my gut feeling was to be my own agent, to bring my own agency to many, many brands. But again, because you have Mrs. P and then you had Emma, and then there was Charlie on the way at Little One, you I couldn't. You've got to really the decisions I made because of them and the dogs in a silly way is you've got to kind of go with where steady paychecks matter. But in the end, I had to do what was right for myself and all the different tryings of let's do normality. When you have this energy and your TGN followers in Virginia were actually you're the same energy that I've heard on the podcast. I I am what I am. But um when we went to we went to the UK because of COVID, I hadn't seen my family, we we thought, let's go, but it it wasn't for for for all of us. And if it's not for all of us, it's for none of us. But at that time with the agency conversation, uh, one of the brands that asked for help was Zodiac. And it wasn't fossil, it was Zodiac. And they obviously were owned by Fossil and they had this really wonderful story that did a couple of drops that had resonated. I think Hedinki had put put uh something with this uh Seawolf GMT that was kind of a good homage to what was and it really was a special one. They could have made thousands of them. They in the end obviously didn't because they were not knowing what they had. But uh TJ McKnight, uh great guy and um and Ryan White, who was a fossil designer, kind of had this task and there's a young man called John who was helping with logistics. So I was asking what's the movement, what's the story, where does it come from? What does Fossil feel about it? And the ambition matched my maybe I should I say this with love to my to my industry was I'd kind of fell out of love with it. They kind of reignited a fire of actually there's an underdog there with a story which is unlike any other that was a first dive watch in so many ways next to Blanc Pond, next to Glycine, around the same time as the sub, and it had been stepped on for 40 years. Let's go. And uh for those two years, I really, really, really was very proud of kind of bringing it back. We we upgraded STP, we we brought more Swissness to it, put more eyes onto it. And we had this opportunity. But the world was really hurting, especially in fashion. And so fossil, they had to look at what was important to that brand, which was their watches, their their their their stores, their retail. And when I did this quite large um deal for Zodiac, they couldn't support it with people or uh the you know the marketing that was needed. And so I was asked about a year before by Mr. Mike France if I wanted to kind of dip back into the British watch scene in a in a way that only Mike can. And I'd I'd said no, uh, if I'm honest, I had my British blinkers, I had my pride of Brahman for a decade. And I, you know, I I understood fears, Farah. You you saw what was kind of happening in Vertex's world, you know I love Don. But Mike, France and and and C W seemed really too far away. Didn't quite get it. But it wind up uh in New York City. Mike was there, unpacking the boxes with his team. And I just walked past uh one of their their booths and I saw a a bronze trident with a scratch dial and I was like actually this is way better than what I'd ever thought because not not in a snotty way but you you wouldn't look at them. I was I was I was they're online they were inexpensive. I sell five thousand dollar Brahmans. H couldow they be anything close to it? They were. They had specialness. And I think in the end I saw how the team interacted. And uh it it was um you know obviously a few months after making the decision with Zodiac, but they ended up being the the thing that pulled me back in and gave this this this energy or this this professionalism and all the experiences a a goal again to grow something that had real potential |
| Jason Heaton | . Yeah. I I think you, know, you're you're so well suited, you know, you've you're brief stinted tutor and you mentioned Omega Ken Cording at some point. And I I feel like the a big brand isn't the I don't see you at a at a big brand. I I you you really work well with I mean Zodiac, yeah, arguably, you know, as part of fossil. There's there was the fossil money behind it or whatever, but Zodiac itself was small, and of course Bramont was a bit of a upstart, and of course CW has occupies a certain stratus of the industry and I think you would just fit well with brands like that. That there's a good story, there's a bit of an underdog and and I don't want to say it's an uphill battle to market, because I think CW is on fire these days, but I think um i I don't know, there's i there's a challenge to it that I think you relish in in getting stories out. And I think that works really well for you. |
| Mike Pearson | Well, I said, you know, at the start, yeah, in the end we sell stuff, but that there's a choice from a customer, right? I mean, if you are going to follow the big article that comes out from any of the big publications, including Hidinki, I mean there is a there is a there's a magnitude to it. It's global. The eyes that are on there, the meta testing, the movements, the materials, it's got such a gravitas of luxury. But there are seven, well, maybe less, 500 proper watch brands now. You think about all the the mess that COVID left in the industry. But the ones that could really, really fight against the battle, they were able to push forward. And Christopher Ward pushed forward uh as an online brand for at that point, what, 18 years? And finally people were starting to trust buying luxury online. And so CEW had this ability to to fight through it, grow. They had the Belcanto. So I came into the brand after the fire was on the fire was really, really raging. They did the the 12 model, the integrated watch, which kind of hit uh a nerve because they had this quality, which and and an aesthetic that was attainable, like the PRX, but it maybe when you held it go, actually, this is this is different level. And then you had obviously with uh Chipak and uh and the Antarctique and the grandeur of the movements, but it also retold a story of gender. Like that model alongside Belcanto, I walked into a place that was already going. What I feel it needed was what hopefully you think with me was tactility, trust, community activations, presence, and and in the end, on a personal level, Mike Franz says, What do you need? Go for it. And that was just the best. It's like a uh a sprinter who said, Right, you've you've done all your training, go and win them at the Olympic Gold medal. It feels like that. I've I I've I've got so much within the last um god no twenty nineteen twenty years in this industry, but I do feel like it's it's this brand that's going to be the thing that gives me uh so much more satisfaction. As much as I'm known for what I did with the brands before and you know the ups and downs of trying things after leaving, all of it was the experience that led to what I'm doing today. And I I really truly believe that. For sure. Ye |
| James Stacey | ah. You know, I I knew you early on, you know, you love football. Um, you liked you you enjoyed um pr any any live sports, as far as I could tell, you were at least down for. Yeah. Um, you loved Oasis and still do, I hope. Still do. Oh yeah, we saw them in Chicago. That's amazing. My uh my daughters are are getting more and more into Oasis. That it's been uh it's been on the car for the last few months, so that's great. But the uh I knew I liked them when I met the D kind of a lot of people good couple of cows. And uh and then you have this ability and and don't get me wrong, I think the brand is important. You've worked with brands that that are the types of brands that require and build communities. Like I don't, you know, if you buy a brand from if you buy a watch from a major watch brand, you will get a a a fantastic watch. If you buy a Rolex and Omega, uh even a T so something like that, what you don't necessarily get is a bunch of friends or or the ticket to the world that would get you a bunch of friends. Right. Back in the day, I think that's why Jason and I love being on WatchUSeq to talk about the dreadnoughts and the Ocean Sevens and the Ravens and the or at the sorry at, the time, Benares, um, is because you bought one of these watches, which were uh a step up from cost and Seiko at the time. Now they'd be a step down, the world has changed, but you immediately got to be part of the conversation. You you could you could go, oh, look at here's my More 44, but I modded the I don't have the orange minute hand. No, no, no. I went with the nickel. I've got the the nickel minute hand on this one. Or or hey, look at the new strap I got from my Ocean 7 LM2, or later on you'd go, Oh, I'm you know, I've got this Bramont S500, you know, this is a a brand that you know sees themselves as sitting in the in the display next to an IWEC, which is a tough battle back in the day. Oh, I love that battle though. And I don't think they would have succeeded without you. I don't want to I don't want to overstate something, but I believe that quite strongly. Um I think I think that they could have found uh a a functioning home for a certain number of units in the UK and in parts of Europe. But I just I think that it was your work that unlocked the club the clubhouse side of any of any of these brands. And I see you doing it with with CW, with the with these new locations. My colleague Tim Jeffries went down. He's a huge soccer fan, football fan as well. Uh went down and and saw the store I think pre or the space pre when it was fully ready. Um I got the keys, yeah. He was in there. I was like, I've got a space. We've got to show him something. Absolutely. So yeah, uh, I I I love it and I've loved seeing this evolution, but for me, I also really like that so little of the the like the passion and the execution hasn't evolved that much. You understand how things work and what people kind of want from a brand of a certain size, which is a little bit of that like clubhouse feeling. Like I have the watch and now I'm part of the conversation or now I'm part of the |
| Mike Pearson | Weirdly though, I think that with with Brahman, you were you were building a group where you were introduced. So I would go into these stores that had IWC Bell and Ross Brightling that had similarly executed movements apart from some really, really wonderful models that were different but you could see that i've always kind of described it as um at the back of a cornflake packet and then you go to your local Kroger or Maya or Walmart and you get the store bought brand ingredients are pretty similar, right? My thing was to show what made it special. And Brahman had that, and Christopher Ward does. The difference going forward with Christopher Ward is that I walked into a brand that had real passionate people. We have uh our own forum, which lives on Christopher Wall.com, but we don't touch it. And those guys and girls on there have been with the brand since the beginning. And they, I mean I've the events I do, they will come up and show me how much this brand has meant to them. And they are the custodians, they're the ambassadors so this new guy came in and I remember the first pod I did so you could see some of the comments like who's this guy like there were definitely like he's he's now in our world there was never yeah a Mike Pearson there was always a Mike France and then you have Peter Ellis are the founder and Chris Ward back in the day. This guy can't do this. How can he take our brand? And I loved that because I not only had a challenge in myself and my heart, but that fan base needed to kind of know that there was somebody there for them to to celebrate what was, bring them to what is, and hopefully take them to what will be. That also meant owning the bad. We are an online brand. We have been and you know DHL can have problems. Uh, the world can have weather as we've seen this week. Uh, you can make mistakes, you're a small brand, you can grow, you can fall down. But and online and on these different forums from your Slack to um Reddit or WatchCrunch or all the Facebooks and social medias, it is an absolute minefield. And at some point, when I jumped in or saw it, there was some conversation that's that was spiraling because there wasn't a big team to say, Hey, my name's Mike. What do you need? I'm sorry that happened. Can we fix it? Yeah. That has always been a massive part of what I tried to do, but the brands I was with before didn't really have that problem. It was building. This had a very weird, uh, brilliant thing where you people just needed to feel heard and knew that you were this is something to carry on investing in, not to give up in. And I've met collectors who have shown me watches from 2010 or even before with the early Malvins, and they've never come back. So they don't know what Christopher Ward is now. Um, there's still similar price points, but it's not the same brand. And that's the opportunity that I like because bringing new people is always the goal. But if you can have fans for the for the long term who was there, who were there, um you've you've got something that's a really big foundation, strong foundation. |
| Jason Heaton | I'm curious, you know, you talk about um old, you know, kind of the old, the OG uh CW fans um and and kind of maintaining those people while while bringing new people in. And it it it brings to mind this uh I guess internal struggle that I have with with watches in general and kind of the this industry is is the relationship of of luxury to the rest of our lives and to kind of the world. And I you know, not to wade into things again here, but um, you know, the past couple of weeks we've gone through some some things here in Minneapolis, and then um we had we talked about it on TGN and had some pretty spirited discussions on Slack about it. And um i it it the idea of kind of writing about or talking about watches and kind of the luxury space, you know, when the rest of the world or the rest of you know let's say just your personal life is is going through some difficult times or whatever, can feel a little hollow and yet um we keep coming back to it. And I'm curious, Mike, you know, your your sense of uh your relationship with luxury and how you view watches because you know we're talking about durable, well crafted products that you in theory you you either don't need or you could buy one and have the rest of your life. And yet, you know, you're you're talking about people that buy multiples. I mean, we all do it. Um I know I'm kind of rambling and this isn't a a direct question, but you know, your relationship with with luxury and how it kind of fits in. Because you're not a no offense, I hope you won't take it this way. You're you're not like a luxury guy. Like you're you know, but you're working in a luxury industry. |
| Mike Pearson | Well luxury is very different for me. You can ask a hundred people and they'll all all have a different answer, but I think that the consistency would be money in some ways or how it looks. But I truly believe on the TGN level, punching up, luxury's always luxury has always been a bad experience for me. And that that can be, you know, gosh, you can you can wear a langer, you can do all these big brands, but you can I know that when you were talking about the watch you were talking about the start, uh James, that there is an excitement about how this hand looks, how this this you open a box, no matter what the brand would be, the box, unboxing still still matters, or discovering something and and and going down the rabbit hole of what again, what was, what will be. But I always think it's about, you know, there's this, especially in a post-COVID world, doesn't really matter what you wear, doesn't matter what your shoes are, doesn't matter what car you drive, your luxury experience can be actually someone was quite kind to me in a Starbucks and wrote my name correctly. And I felt a little bit special that moment. It can be very granular and i believe that you know even the manners from my daughters to to a stranger that can make their day i i know that none of it matters i know that none of these these watches in the end matter but it makes me happy. It makes people who buy them happy. And you can find your vice if that's a word to call it. And you're right, Jane. I love Oasis. I love Aston Della. I will always have my weekends to watch, listen, and do what I like. That's my downtime. But I also know that not professionally, personally, I love scrolling through the watch pictures of Instagram. I like seeing people's opinions of things that are unobtainable or possible. And I like the fact that there are every single colour of every watch strap case size movement and price that's available. Is it all for me? I don't care. I I really, really believe that you you do you is an old adage in life. And I do know that I can only control what I can control and the watch is is is well the watch industry is my career, but it's also kind of who I am as well. So it it is weird, but I was speaking to Mike French yesterday and um that the next day, the tomorrow, Thursday, the 29th, we are launching a new watch and I will talk about it. I rambled, but I think I got to your point there, I |
| Jason Heaton | think as well. Yeah, no, actually you you really wrapped that up nicely. I was uh I was I was I was worried that like you just kind of have giving me a blank stare like what was the question? No I when I asked James about the Hadinki and TGN that was a blank st |
| James Stacey | are back at me. I just I it I think I think my answer maybe painted why I didn't understand the question. Yeah, no. I don't I don't see the dis I don't I don't see that that distinction. It's kind of like um yeah, I don't know. I don't I don't have a better answer than that. Maybe I should. I don't I don't know |
| Mike Pearson | . No, I see it's impressive James to to look to look at this the two sides kinda goes to my point as well. It doesn't matter. You you you have a foot in both camps and it's great that you don't have to change hats. So hats |
| James Stacey | off to you. I mean I I think I think I'm I've always try and do anything and and I think Jason would agree with this. Like you try and be as professional as you possibly can up until the point where that butts in with your personality. Like I'm I'm I'm good at producing a podcast, but I also don't mind if we leave in something silly, right? It doesn't have to be perfect. I d I actually don't think perfect is better than real. Um, especially in I might have felt I would have had an entirely different sentence in twenty sixteen than I do in twenty twenty six. Um and uh and I think that's that's important. But yeah, I don't uh I don't I don't necessarily it's it's a question it's always a question of scope. |
| Mike Pearson | I was um I'm a big Aston Biller fan, as you you alluded to, I'm a big football fan. But Christopher Ward sponsors another Premier League called Everton. And last season I went to England with Mike France and sat in the nice posh seats watching Aston Villa against Everton and Villa scored and Villa won. And we were sitting across the field watching three thousand Villa fans go nuts. I sat on my hands. Some great professional life butts up against your real life. I was breathing heavy and all I could feel was Mike and his brother who was there, not in the watch, it's his brother, just staring into my soul. Yeah, burning. And when the screaming stops, not for me, and I just turned to Mike and he just went, You did well there, Mike. Gonna have |
| James Stacey | the professional hat on for a second, but it was very good. You can always watch the highlight at home and and cheer and cheer to the computer, you know what I mean. Oh, the abuse started as soon as I was out of the box, that was for sure. That's great. Well look, I uh I you know I I thought that we would we would probably get into um sort of an oral history of of TGN uh was kind of on the list, but I'm glad that we're able to go deeper into your side of it and and all those sorts of things, Mike. I'm I'm excited to see um more about the new watch tomorrow and then if I may there,'s another one next week uh from a pal of ours, which is pretty solid. I I don't think I should spoil anything further than that. Um, but uh I I have seen that one and I'm I'm looking forward to uh to further work from uh from CW. Uh I I'm curious, you know, you you listed um you know, Oasis and and footy and and all that sort of thing. What else what else are you into today if we if we zoom out just beyond watches? What's uh or or even you know how what have you found that you're able to share with your daughters as they there's an age where they suddenly get old enough where they're interested in stuff just because you are yeah and uh and that sort of thing and then you can kind of invert that and and for me maybe r m people who listen to the show, it's 3D printing. We do a fair amount amount of that kind of some video games, that sort of thing. What what have you uh w what do what do you feeling, you know, if there's not a game on, uh what what are you what are you up to these days? Well believe it or not, I've got Shoveling Snow, I suppose. Well, yeah, in Texas doing that yesterday was very weird |
| Mike Pearson | . But it was breaking. That was breaking ice. That wasn't shoveling snow like back in Michigan. That was weird. It was three to five inches of solid, solid ice. Needed a pickaxe more than a shovel, but uh we got the assault didn't even move it but with this uh this level of energy uh as much as the games are great i'm not i've never been a gamer it's just not my thing um but i do love to go out and play and you remember jason you're a big biker. I used to be big mountain biker when I was back in Michigan. That's not the same anymore. Um, I had my Land Rover defender for many a year. That's gone now. We used to love driving around. I had to sell it because they're bikes and skateboards and uh all the stuff that kids need just took all the the the space in the garage that was a very sad day but we always went driving in that and actually one of my now no man my my wife's got the the SUV and I've got an uh I got an electric car just to go to the office in the airport. What what did you pick for both? Uh Mustang Mackie for me. And really, really, really, really cool. I'm very, very happy with it. Um and Ashley's got with our Volkswagen. We went normal with a Tiguan, but uh enough to throw the baseball stuff in the back. But me and the girls, we've we have this really cool dynamic because I travel so much when I'm back. We always find some something to go do and play with outside. Sure. But they're not soccer players. Uh my older one is liking softball, so I'm still you gotta think when you're you're not from the country and you didn't go up throwing the ball with your dad. I'm really crap at throwing. So things that we can do together. My wife was an all-American softballer, so I'm like the proper just parent watching, but I love to play with them. We love to ride bikes. So it's not quite the same Michigan mountain biking, but we're always outside. But one weird or two weird things that have happened in the last few weeks that are from my youth, you would have American gladiators. We had gladiators in England, and I watched that as I was a 12, 13, 14-year-old kid, and they've brought it back on English TV. So maybe through a a VPN or uh two, I've been able to watch that. So Saturday nights, we go and we watch gladiators together and follow the sang. And they are as excited as I was as a kid and and seeing the things that you liked through their eyes. Oh, yeah. And obviously they're it there's there's it's just magic. And um then the second side to it is we're watching movies that meant stuff to me growing up, but through the books. So Harry Potter, yep, and my we we tried to watch the first ones and they were too young and they saw Voldemort's head on the back of a uh guy. That was it. They were not watching any more. And then this this uh winter we've watched them all and we finished it last night. And so the joy of disconnecting from the watch world used to be Oasis, Tigers, live sports. Now it's a bit of a playtime on the bike. Uh, I do my exercise still every morning, but at the end of the day, it's what do you want to watch, kids? That's that's sitting and have |
| James Stacey | a cuddle? It's brilliant. Yeah, my daughters are a little bit older, but we've we've been doing the movie thing pretty strongly for the last year or so. We did the Harry Potters, we did a selection of the of the Star Wars. I think they found the pace of the of the original three pretty slow. Yeah. They watched the Lego Star Wars, which breaks me, but Sure, sure, yeah. Um we've done um we the big big Jurassic Park fans. Really all almost all of them. Um I think that's coming next. But seeing somebody get eaten on a toilet might be my daughters are way are way in on anything that's a little scary, little little like so we did all of the Mission Impossibles, which are it's an insane thing to go through. Some of them don't even feel like the same world genre at times. Um they are good though. They all very the Meg. My daughters are big, uh, especially my my youngest is a big fan of the Meg. They like Jason Statham now, which is fantastic. You should like Jason Statham. Yeah. Um and um I don't wat |
| Mike Pearson | ch them because my wife likes Jason Statham a bit too much. I think Hey I get it. Yeah no I don't I I I understand that I have I am I am many things but Jason stay thing |
| Jason Heaton | It's the just the gravelly voice Well if you squint a little bit, you know, that you you put can that filter on and zoom, you kinda look like him. You sound like him, you know Ye |
| James Stacey | ah, right, right, yeah. Uh but yeah, I mean we'll I'm sure and I will dip into some of the the the things that have happened to us while we manage to make a show, uh maybe next week or the week after we we will do some sort of an oral history. It might be a subscriber only because man it'll be very naval gazy slash uh for me there'll be there'll be some like uh Jason will have to be my therapist for an hour |
| Jason Heaton | . We've done plenty of therapy mutually here. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Both on and off the air |
| Mike Pearson | . You have no idea how much your therapy together is how people like me out there. You are a comfortable pair of slippers. Yeah. When I listen and I put my earpodss, it' the best. So I'll I'll send you the brown paper bag with the money and you've helped all me. Hey Mike, |
| Jason Heaton | the burning question I've got is do you still have your blue Defender ninety? No, that was the thing. We had to sell it I figured that's that's what he sol |
| Mike Pearson | d. Yeah it was it was hard. Did you at least get a blue lightning or a a a blue Maquis? Sorry? No we got a we got a black one and we were watching how to train your dragon and because it's got no engine we called it toothless. If you've watched the movie, you'll get it. I've driven one. They're they're not toothless. They don't make much noise, that's for sure. My the Defender, I um I kind of just uh toyed with with with keeping it or getting rid of it, but I put it on the Facebook marketplace and I got reached reached out to by an elderly gentleman who had never driven a right hand drive, never driven a defender, fascinated by it. And he is um one of the leads of the North Dallas Jaguar Collectors Club. Big Anglophone. Oh, right. And I just said, come along. And we had probably, I think you must have stayed with me four hours. The guy was awful at driving right-hand drive and hit every curb. But he loved hearing that that car was a few score. That's what I told him. It's defender. Um but he he loved hearing that it used to be an ambulance in the north of England, the story of me getting it, what it means. And you know, I pulled down the visor and you saw the coordinates from one of the ambulance drivers having to get to somebody one day. And I said, if you buy this car, can you keep it as it is, as in like can you can it feel like a defender? Yeah. Not a Texas defender, which is now full of carpet and leather. And he goes, I promise you, I'll do it, I'll do it right.. That's great He messaged me last week and it looked great. He's took all the bubbles and paints off. He's he's obviously got a mechanic and way better than I could. But it still looks like we called it it was called Bandit uh after the dad in Bluey. Um but he said um what when when he when he bought it, he said, I promise you if I sell it, I'll call you first. So I my hope is that it comes back when the garage is bigger and the kids have less bikes. Yeah, yeah |
| James Stacey | . Yeah. Yeah, very good. There's a story too for sure.. I love that Well look, I think that's about as good a point as any to maybe jump into some uh final notes. Mike, have you got anything you'd like to recommend uh to the audience |
| Mike Pearson | ? Oh, for me right now, I mean I'm still in a big mode of of of Harry Potter. So if you've if you've kind of read the books and you've gone through it, it's in my head right now. So give it a second chance. The it is not as bad at act as acting as you think. And Daniel Radcliffe, he the stories that were told through his eyes, it really matters. And I think some of the stories that resonate through good and bad uh are quite special about in the world we're in today. So let yourself get away from reality and throw on a Harry Potter and just enjoy yourself |
| James Stacey | . Uh I mean look, the uh the uh prisoner of Ascaban, which was directed by Alfonso Quaran, is a flat out fantastic movie. Absolutely my favorite. I absolutely recommend you see the ones before it so you understand what's happening. Um but no, they're they're and I mean they're they're absolute showcases. I mean, uh it's also a movie that I think you don't you don't necessarily get X number of Marvel movies without this being beforehand, the proof that like you could make a movie you could use an author director, you could have the parents excited to see it because it's dark and moody and the special effects are world-leading. And it's also based on a story from that, you know, that was very much written for for children. Uh yeah, no, I think it's a I think it's a remarkable series. Uh for me it was in they seem to really figure it out by like the second or third one what the tone, what the aesthetic was gonna be. And and then if you're a fan of British actors, they're all in there. Every single one of them. It's so great. It's like I can watch that and Band of Brothers and I basically get everybody. What a show, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, for sure. I mean we're yeah, we're we we wax poetic, uh for sure. Uh but yeah, I think I think that's a great recommendation, especially if you manage to like maybe you didn't have the window by reading the books or you didn't have the window by uh your your children or or nieces or nephews or something like that. A couple of them stand on their own really well. I mean, I'm not saying that any of them are say children of men necessarily for our for our audience, another Quran. Uh, but that's also a pretty tough movie to watch and the the Harry Potters go down pretty easily. Uh they're they're definitely a lot |
| Mike Pearson | of fun. My wife and I are down in Apple TV rabbit hole. I don't think they've produced anything bad, but when you come to the kids being around and you just want to escape normality, just throw on a fantasy. It's gonna work for you for sure. For sure. Uh my daughters who was L Lord of the Rings, they love just adored all three. Oh well, we got Game of Thrones that that uh original was it the seven the the the seven nights or something like that that's coming back on HBO. So we're gonna go back into to Westeros and see some see some bad things happen again. No, I've never watched a Game of Thr |
| James Stacey | ones. Oh my god. What? Oh man. No, I'm I'm I I mean like with maybe with the exception of uh Lord of the R and I get heat for this and I'll take the heat, it's fine. I I don't I'm not huge on like knights and the dragons. Oh, this is way different. Get get the first epis |
| Mike Pearson | ode out of the way. There's one of my favourite ever British actors is called Sean Bean. And he, you know, you you know if you've ever actually good question for you too. Have you ever seen the TV show he started off? It's called Sharp. Yeah, of course. Did you watch it? I think I have. My parents are big Sharp fans. I just I don't think I've got a TV show that lasted with me. That the West Wing and probably the original 24 season. But Sharp will always be something I'll go back to. But anything with Sean Bean I'm in. But when he said and looked at the camera, do you know why I did it? You can't you you'll watch it and you'll know. You you're in. Just give it a ch |
| James Stacey | ance, James. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I mean maybe maybe we'll get we'll get around to it. We'll see whatll look at we' it. You know, I I love I love a show where a guy's chasing another guy. I love that's plenty of that. That's kind of the genre for me. Uh you know, maybe he's a spy, maybe he's a robber. I don't know. He's gotta be chased by somebody. Um But yeah, I could I it's definitely been there and and my brothers are huge fans. So uh maybe you know uh maybe it's weird to enjoy a Harry Potter and uh Lord of the Rings and not uh a a game of Thrones. Nah, same world, different worlds, different different weapon. There you go. For sure. Not kid friendly, maybe. Yeah, no, um the daughters will have to have to age up for that for sure. Maybe we'll watch it together in the 10 years or something. Um Jason, how about you? What have you got for uh final notes tod |
| Jason Heaton | ay? Uh yeah, so I've got a um a substack from uh a guy named uh foster Huntington that um was a bit more of a prominent figure kind of in social media space and blogs, I don't know, probably 10 years ago. Um he um he wrote a a substack recently called Akin to Believing Light Beer is a Solution to Alcoholism, uh colon, My Time at Patagonia. And um Foster Huntington was a guy who was kind of one of the early hashtag van life proponents. He um he did a lot of uh photography and and writing and then he, as this suggests he, worked at Patagonia back in, I would say, early to mid-2000s. And this this is a bit of a controversial article. It's a bit uh he kind of poked some holes in kind of the myth of um of Patagonia, and as James youed and I discuss before we started recording today, you know, it's one person's perspective, um, take it for what it is. But um as someone who has been such a longtime admirer of the brand and of Yvonne Channard, it was a bit of an eye-opener, I guess to, hear somebody talking um fairly negatively about Patagonia and kind of their business philosophies and Channard's personality as a leader. Um yeah, I I I think it's food for thought. And I think it it kind of spurs some further kind of research and discussion around this and I'd be curious to hear maybe what some other folks um on Slack uh might how how people might respond to this who've read it or maybe have a little more knowledge of Patagonia um than I do. So yeah, it's really interesting. He kind of, as I said, sort of tears down the myth of Patagonia as this very altruistic company and Chenard as this visionary leader. And you know, certainly there's good and bad with everybody, and they say don't meet your heroes, and this is kind of one of those stories that makes you question things. Mm-hmm. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I I read this. Uh it it showed up on the Slack. You sent it to me. I read it a couple times, and I don't have a a huge background with um with foster hunting team. He definitely had a very bad experience with Chinard and and with understanding the corporate structure of that. And and look, that's I mean, CEOs are are they gonna be nice to everybody? Probably not. Is niceness really part of the the the world? Maybe not. It could be isolated. Maybe it isn't maybe he sucks. I you know it's hard to say. Um I've definitely praised the man on the show before, and it's possible that I was dead wrong about his um about his character. I feel like a lot has been written about him and you know he also has written books, so I think you can get at least a piece of that there and maybe this is a piece of the other side. And that's often how humans can be. The broader scope is is really him pulling back, like you said, Jason, kind of pulling back the veil on the marketing that we've been fed and and understood about Patagonia, which may have started in one way and then was continued as other business lines kind of formed behind it, some uh maybe less altruistic or in the scope of Patagonia as possible. And I think it's fair to bring this up because if if uh if there has been a brand that has been carried aloft in many times on these recordings. It's it's Patagonia and a couple of their products, black hole bags and uh nanopuffs. I think I've got one hanging over the chair behind me here. I think it's fair to consider that that may be this was a very well-marketed sort of thing that that had altruistic roots and then became a huge business and then eventually transitioned into a different type of business, possibly just for the the tax implications. I mean that's that's loosely what uh what uh this story kind of covers. So I think it's definitely worth considering rather than sort of uh running from. And if that's the case, it's um it's a you know, it would be a disappointment. I'm I'm I was certainly aware, you know, anecdotally about the the military connections. I believe there's also connections for uh other major outerwear brands that are making, you know, um high altitude, you know, survival gear and that sort of thing. I believe our Terix operates in that space as well. And uh and yeah, so I think that's uh that's something definitely something to consider and and and think about when you're choosing where you put your money and and that sort of thing. But uh you know, you you learn and and you move on, and sometimes that means changing a position. And look, I've got uh I've got one more, but Mike, I I got a question for you. We're in the final notes. Maybe, maybe not everybody's still listening. Maybe they didn't even want to hear what my final note is. Any chance you can kind of spill the beans a little bit on whatever the the CW is that comes out. I mean it'll come out I think within hours of the show launching. We launch at six AM EST tomorrow. Uh it's gonna be a little bit before that, but I |
| Mike Pearson | think uh yeah no one's listening now are they? Um I uh last year we were obviously we've now opened three Christopher Ward showrooms, uh Dallas, Virginia, and New York City. I've got a couple more hopefully coming. But while I was showing Mike and Peter, the founders, uh, New York, we we found a space, we sat down for some lunch and I was just like, I would love to have something which is a celebration of the best of America. And maybe even weirdly with what's all that's happening in the world, I thought it was you know, you never know what's coming, but it it feels quite serendipitous. But um you, know, you talk about travel and and luxury and and everything. There was no brand better uh back in the day than Pan Am. And I wanted to, I wanted a GMT World Timer in the collection. I thought there was some holes missing in Christopher Ward. And so suggested this. And I said, would you mind to the to the gents if I reach out to to Pan Am and see what would be possible? We have, in my eyes, one of the best celebrations of luxury travel coming out tomorrow. It's going to be a really cool 42mm GMT world timer bezel. The cities are a celebration of Panam's history from Key West being on there all the way through to the cities that were uh through the postal service, through where they would have um refueling stations uh what lond meant to them uh this is the stories are endless and they've given us that beautiful meatball logo uh for the case back but the the dial has a as a as a cream to it without it being aged. And we are using aluminum for the for the bezel and we are bringing a blue and red bezel back to tell the stories of the the great uh Boeing seven oh seven clipper. So telling the story of the plane, the brand, at a time where for me, you know, uh traveling is awful. You know, you if they give you a bag of peanuts, you'd be lucky. And if they don't pass them to you and they throw them at you, you know, you you'd be lucky as well. But you know, you're you're you're you're cooped up like battery hens on the back of some of these airplanes, but that was proper travel. And um there's there's rumors in the in the world that they have applied to the FAA to bring an airline or an aircraft back to Pan Am. So it all felt like if we approached them, could we do this right? And the team in Switzerland took that idea and ran. And um I'd love to hear your thoughts. It's got it comes on our beta bracelet. Um it's going to have the SW three thirty movement, so you've got a good amount of power, but it's also got a really cool um strap, not a not a gray NATO, but maybe uh that's um been recreated to feel like the original seat belts on the Panama aircrafts. We uh we've got some stories to tell in there as well |
| James Stacey | . I think it looks great. Yeah. Yeah. Little early scoop. And uh and yeah we'll uh uh I might I might have to add the the link to the the product page somewhat after the show goes live but I'm I'm technically capable of doing such things. No doubt. Uh so we can definitely take care of that. It was it's uh it's a definitely a cool piece and uh and a nice moment for sure and and uh you've got some good ones coming up so this is uh yeah nice to have a a little little scoop for those who who made it to the end of the episode. Your TGN Sla |
| Mike Pearson | ck group had no worries about asking me what was coming in the next two years. They had all the questions. They've been uh properly trained by ten years of listening to you guys how to ask around about a question. You can always ask. Exactly. I can't. I mean my wife always says I can't lie because a dimple pops out and I was uh the dimples are on full display during that |
| James Stacey | uh that meetup. Well that's great. Uh yeah. So uh I can close out mine with uh a documentary that actually got served by YouTube, which is normally not something that works for me, but maybe the maybe the algorithm's starting to figure me out. And it's from years ago. Um, I think it's uh five years old, has 18 million views. So some of you have already watched this. It's from Eddie Bauer, the Outerwear company, and it's called uh breathtaking, K2, the world's most dangerous mountain. And it's like a proper 46-minute documentary. And I've had it playing on the side of my monitor for the last two days as I kind of chip my way through it. I really enjoyed it. Obviously, it's from the perspective of a an outerwear brand that that has a whole wing that applies to like really, really intense, high level. I mean, this is the the company that that would have outfitted Ed Visters, who of course, topped out on K2, for example, but uh a pretty solid doc. And I, you know, I I I kind of come and go on binging sort of mountain documentaries, mountain climbing documentaries, and then I take a break for a while and then I come back. And now I feel like I'm kind of back. We had Alex Honnold for Netflix climbing that insane tower, uh, which I you know, which was just hard to watch. I I did not I did not tune in for the whole thing, uh impressive as always, but uh uh I really wanted to relax on the weekend and I did not find that to be relaxing uh sort of programming. But man, I I really enjoyed this uh this documentary from uh from Eddie Bauer. So if you're not one of the eighteen million people who already watched it, but uh you know maybe cue it up this weekend and take a peek. It's good on a big monitor as well. Nicely shot. Yeah and and it's forty six minutes long which is uh a nice you know something to sink your teeth into uh on for a YouTube video. It's great. All right. Well look this has been so much fun. Mike, I feel like we could do this we maybe maybe make it an annual thing. Uh I feel like we could do this a lot more. Uh I've got, you know, dozens of more questions and do you remember you know, do you remember that time we did this in this part of the world or uh were you on that subway back from the Braymont townhouse? Uh I don't remember who was on that subway. I've got lots of those sorts of questions. It was just an absolute treat having you on, man. So nice to see you. I'm I'm glad you're chipping through the ice down there. Uh hopefully that's a a freak event and not something that you know that you have to deal with more often this season. Bring on the 115 degrees that's on its |
| Mike Pearson | way, I'm sure. No, thanks for everything. Congrats on everything. And yeah, we'll we'll talk all the time, but really proud to be on today. So it means a lot. For sure. Oh, and uh thank you for returning the Hali |
| James Stacey | os. Oh, yes. That should have been gone back to you many, many years ago. But I've got watches all over, loaned out. You that I don't even think you were the longest on my book list for for the James Stacey watch library. Uh there's people listening who have had some for for for quite some time, which is fine. That's what watches are for. They're meant to be worn. I do miss seeing it though. I open up my box and you're not there anymore. So I need to seal something else. CWN War. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Well said. There you go. Well, look, as always, thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to subscribe to the show notes, get into the comments for each episode, or maybe even consider supporting the show directly and becoming part of our amazing slack crew, uh you can visit thegraynato.com for more details. Music throughout is siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive. And we leave you with this quote that |
| Mike Pearson | Mike Pearson's gonna read for us. Mike, what do you got? Happiness can be found even in the darkest of times if one only remembers to turn on the light. Whoa. Who said that one? So it went with the theme. I had another another quote, but we were talking about Potter. That was from the great Albus Dumbledore. Oh, that's great. The writing is just as we were talking it just like got to me, so I clicked through and was like, that was the quote that stuck with me. And maybe it means more. And uh I think I'll say to you, Jason, just be safe out there. We love you lots. Yeah, appreciate it. Thanks. |
| Jason Heaton | That's a great quote. Thanks for joining us, Mike. Pleasure. Take care all |