The Grey NATO – 273 – Designing Watches For The Future of Space Exploration With Karel Bachand of Barrelhand Watches¶
Published on Thu, 22 Feb 2024 06:00:00 -0500
Synopsis¶
Jason and James interview Karel Bashan, the founder of Barrelhand Watch Company. Karel discusses his background in mechanical engineering and 3d printing, and how he got into watchmaking by reverse-engineering and 3d printing an Urwerk watch as a personal project. This led to the creation of his company Barrelhand.
They talk about Barrelhand's upcoming watch called Monolith, designed specifically for space exploration and extreme environments. The Monolith has unique features like a 3d printed insulated case, a special airlock crown system to operate in vacuum, and an engraved "memory disc" on the back containing curated data as a connection to Earth.
Karel provides details on the Monolith's design goals, materials, and the thought process behind including the memory disc. He also discusses plans to offer a civilian version at a relatively affordable $875 price point later in 2023. They touch on the upcoming private lunar lander mission that will carry prototypes of Barrelhand's technology.
Links¶
Transcript¶
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| Jason Heaton | Hello and welcome to another episode of The Grey Nado, a loose discussion of travel, adventure, diving, driving, gear, and most certainly watches. This is episode 273 and it's proudly brought to you by the ever-growing TGN supporter crew. We thank you all so much for your continued support, and if you'd like to support the show, please visit thegreynado.com for more details. My name is Jason Heaton, and I'm joined as ever by my friend and co-host, James Stacy, James, how's that? How's that cold doing for you this week? |
| James Stacey | You know, between between the recording of the previous episode and this one, it's probably the sickest I've been in a couple of years. I've actually been super fortunate with my health. I haven't haven't been like the colds, the flus, that sort of thing have largely dodged me. Yeah, but the last couple go arounds, maybe I've had two or three colds in the last four or five years. they've just hit a lot harder. I had a terrible one a couple of years ago at Watches and Wonders that ended up being a fairly major sinus infection, and this one wasn't nearly that bad. It also didn't really respond to medication, like the stuff you can take to help you sleep, the Nyquils, all that. It's also... You ever read the warnings on those things? It sounds like they're just gonna grind your liver into a little pulp and leave you dead on the street. The thing that ended up working was just the Neomed the like sinus rinse. Oh, sure. So stop taking the meds and it kind of carried out for a day or two. And then so far, you know, a little congested today, but doing better and thankfully sleeping a lot better than I was over over the weekend. So yeah, hadn't been sick in a while. I guess it happens. Everyone got got a good took a round out of me if I'm honest, but back and fighting and kind of riding the high of today's episode. We just just got off the call with today's guest Carol Bashand and It was awesome. I'm really looking forward to being able to share this with the audience, not like maybe the usual guests and like you point out in the talk, like in many ways, not the polar opposite, but the polar opposite perspective on watchmaking than our previous guest in Dr. Struthers, so a really fun one. Other than that, I really didn't get up to much because of the cold, so I don't have a ton to kind of lean on. I watched a bunch of TV, got to the season finale of True Detective, season four, which is very much a topic of conversation in the Slack. Right. Yeah, I've, you know, enjoyed the season. Not sure I fully understand the route they took to end it, but that's OK. And then other than that, I think the only other kind of news for me before we get it, because I really want to download on your winter camping. I lived vicariously through your Instagram posts and really enjoyed it. But the only other thing for me is, you know, now that I'm breathing correctly, I'm back on the treadmill and rewarding myself for nearly two months of using it now with a weight vest. So I've got a 40 pound vest showing up at some point from Amazon. I feel bad for the guy delivering it, but... Maybe he'll wear it to the front door. Yeah, exactly. It's been... We got a heavy box just before we recorded, and it turned out to just be a bunch of magazines. |
| Comments/Reactions | Oh. |
| James Stacey | It wasn't quite heavy enough to be the weight vest, but I'm looking forward to that. It's been years I used to really rely on a cheap Amazon weight vest for my workouts, like my home calisthenics. And I think this will be kind of a fun thing to add into the treadmill and we'll see what kind of speed and weight comfort zone I find to kick it off. But I'll keep people posted on that as I know it can be kind of a point of interest for folks. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I've debated going the weighted vest route, but in preparation for the fan dance, which I've talked about quite a bit now, you know, I really need to start putting some weight in a backpack and getting out kind of more functional that way. Some hill hiking and that sort of stuff. The idea of a weighted vest kind of distributing the weight kind of around your whole torso is, uh, definitely more appealing than, than sorting out a backpack and getting it to wear properly when you're out hiking around. Cause boy, it makes such a difference to, to add weight. Um, speaking of the winter camping, you know, one thing Gushani and I did was, was go for a bit of a nice day hike. Uh, I guess it was on Sunday. It was a lovely day and we went out for about a five mile hike with a fair bit of climbing and some stairs and that sort of stuff. And I, you know, Being the gentleman that I am, I offered to carry all the weight. Actually, it was a gentleman in true. |
| James Stacey | Well, you're a gentleman, but you're also in training. You're not a gentleman in training. |
| Jason Heaton | A couple of water bottles and various other things, some lunch and this and that. And, um, it makes such a difference. I mean, when you're just, you know, I've been running a lot lately and it's just like, once you add even 10 to 20 pounds, it's like, okay, you know, you start to feel it more in the hips and in the back and the shoulders and that sort of thing. So, That'll be good. I'll be curious about your, your impressions of that, that weight vest on the treadmill. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I'm, I'm trying to decide if I can eventually get like the personal agility. Those of you who know me well enough would know that like I'm, I like to be active, but I'm not necessarily athletic in this. I would love to get to a point where I could be walking while like playing call of duty. |
| Comments/Reactions | Oh yeah. |
| James Stacey | But I don't know if that would be too much of like my eyes and balance in one world that's moving quite quickly. uh, while attempting to walk and not walk off the end of the treadmill. If I get too into a youtube video, I noticed that my, my stride, um, lengthens. Oh sure. And I ended up going towards the back and a couple of times I've almost like lost a foot off the back of the treadmill. |
| Comments/Reactions | Yeah. Yeah. |
| James Stacey | Which has a terrifying feeling. It's a little bit like slipping when you know you're near the edge of something. |
| Comments/Reactions | Yeah. |
| James Stacey | But, uh, I, I, I mean, let's face it. I don't think there's anything to gain by playing Call of Duty while I'm on the treadmill, but it seems like I'm like kind of crawling, walking, juggling all at the same time. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, it's funny you mentioned that. I, I think I had mentioned in a past episode that I'm kind of mildly terrified of treadmills for, for that reason. And I've been sporadically using a stair climber at the gym, uh, just cause I kind of need to start building that in and I really try to use it without holding onto the rails, you know, and I see people, there was a guy next to me on the other one and he was like, like fully like leaning on it. Like he was reclining on it. And I thought that can't be as good of a workout. And so I've been trying to do it without holding on the rails at all. And it's, it's trickier than you think. Um, and then the other day, last week I was watching on the little screen on my phone just as a diversion. Cause I was on for like an hour. I watched the first episode of masters of the air on Apple TV. on this little screen. Nice. And to do that while not holding on. Just as they wanted you to watch it. Yeah. Horrible, right? I mean, yeah, I shouldn't even say that out loud. But that was a challenge, you know, kind of squinting at a small screen, not using the rails and like on the stair climber, right? It was definitely an exercise in agility for sure. |
| James Stacey | Well, we'll see if I end up in, you know, crutches or whatever. |
| Jason Heaton | The exact opposite effect. |
| James Stacey | We'll move forward. Yeah, exactly. That'll really delay the treadmill progress. So, so how, how was the Snowtrekker tent? Sorry, I'm really derailing us all very quickly in this episode. |
| Jason Heaton | It was great. It was really good to be back out. I hadn't been camping, I think in a couple of years. And, um, this was a fun way to get back into it. We'd been wanting to try some winter camping for quite a while. And also one of these so-called hot tents. And as I mentioned last week, uh, Eli, who's a listener of, of TGN, longtime listener, his family started Snowtrekker tent company, back in, I believe the nineties and his parents owned it and the siblings are involved and, and I had expressed interest and he actually was kind enough to drive over here and, and lend me one of their tents. It was his personal tent. It's called the high country. It's a nine and a half foot by nine and a half foot canvas walled tent that, um, and a little, uh, steel, uh, stove, a wood stove that you put inside. And so we packed it in the defender, loaded up with, you know, cooler, a bunch of food. Some cots, sleeping bags, way too much stuff. And drove a couple hours South to Whitewater State Park, which is one of my favorite parks here in Minnesota, um, barring up on the North shore. Um, because it just has this amazing topography. It's, it's in kind of what they call the driftless region, just some beautiful bluffs. There's a lovely, uh, river flowing through it. That is popular with trout fishermen. And just beautiful hiking. It kind of, when you're there, it's, it's a lot of, uh, kind of pine forest and, uh, steep trails and overlooks and these kinds of sandstone bluffs and kind of feels almost like you're not even in the Midwest. It feels more like you're out West and, you know, South Dakota, Wyoming, Utah, something like that. And so we were literally the only people in the entire campground, you know, winter camping is not. Something that just kind of the average person goes out and does. And so when we arrived to kind of check in, the ranger said, know, take your pick. And we had the whole campground to ourselves and drove around and find a good spot and, and, and pitch the tent, which was a lot easier than I thought it would be, uh, threw down a big tarp and then set up the tent over it, got the stove going. And it wasn't, you know, we've had such a wimpy winter here that I believe, you know, if we're talking Fahrenheit that the day we arrived was probably maybe 30, so just below the freezing mark. And then at night it did dip down. It was quite a windy day and it dipped down into the twenties. So, you know, it was, it was brisk, but man, once we got that thing set up and we're, you know, a little bit chilly and I thought, okay, let's get this, this stove going. And I got the wood in, got it, you know, sparked up and man, that tent heat up in less than five minutes. I mean, especially up near the top. Like, you know, you stand up and like, there's this temperature differential in the top two feet of the tent where like your head is just a tent thermal client, just like sweating, you know, and then you sit down in your cot and, uh, and it's a little cooler. And so it was kind of this adjustment to get used to regulating that the temperature, because it's, it's, uh, it's like a sheet metal based, uh, little stove. And so it heats up quickly. Uh, easy to get going and all that, but it doesn't hold heat like, like cast iron wood, which obviously is pretty prohibitive because of weight. Sure. So you're, you're kind of either always feeding it and kind of trying to balance the damper and kind of keep the temperature just right. Uh, but if you let it go too long, like the cold settles in very quickly. So then you stoke it up and then it gets really hot. And so there's a bit of a balance, kind of a learning curve. It felt just downright luxurious. We had a little folding table, our couple of cots and this little stove in there. And it was just so cozy. to kind of hang out in there. And we just, you know, we, we listened to, um, to an audio book. I brought Joe Simpson's touching the void, which kind of felt like kind of a suitable sort of outdoorsy book to listen to. Um, and we, we kind of set that up and listened to that as we were going to sleep the first day and, uh, cooked some good meals. You know, the morning coffee is always better in the woods and then set off for a hike on, on Sunday, which turned out to be a lovely day. And, uh, and then, yeah, um, Slept another night. So we had two nights there and then got up yesterday morning and kind of slowly packed up and came home. It was great. I couldn't have been more impressed with this tent. The setup was super easy. They've really thought things through. It's all, it's all made here in the U.S. Eli's folks do the kind of manufacturing of the poles and kind of get the whole thing together. And then the actual canvas is stitched up at in the upper peninsula of Michigan where they make, I'm not Sure. If anyone out there is familiar with Stormy Cromer, but it's a, a Michigan company that goes way back that makes these kind of iconic brimmed caps with these flaps. It almost is something you'd see in the Fargo Fargo movies. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but apparently they do this, the stitching of the canvas for them and, uh, goes up and gosh, we had that thing set up in, you know, less than 10 minutes and staked out and, and, uh, guide out. And then you put the stove pipe up through, through the, uh, the hole in the side and off you go. And it was great. Really a fun way to do it. We didn't have proper snow. I think it would have been more kind of photogenic to have at least a few inches of snow on the ground with the tent, but it was cool enough that we really got to take advantage of having a heated tent. So thanks again to Eli and to Snow Trekker for the loaner. And if anyone's interested, we'll put a link to Snow Trekker tents in the show notes because it's a really cool business. |
| James Stacey | Do you figure, um, do you figure if you do get a good, a good dumping of snow before February is over, you head back out for a night in it? |
| Jason Heaton | We talked about it. I mean, we were driving away and I thought, Hey, let's, let's do this again. And I, the weather does not look promising in the next few weeks. I think oftentimes March, we get a good dumping and, and then it's, uh, the days are longer, which is a real bonus. Um, especially when you're camping. Like if you go in what, like mid January or something, you know, it's dark at four o'clock and kind of limits what you can do. And then you spend a lot of time in the tent. And so, yeah. Kind of a mid-March, like snowy, snowy, but sunny outing, maybe to the same park or somewhere, somewhere else would be, uh, would be a lot of fun. So we'll see. Yeah. Eli said to hold on to the tent for a little while. So if we get another chance, we'll, we'll give it another go. But, uh, yeah, good times. Really fun. Really, really fun. Kind of felt like I needed, needed a bit of an escape. You know, it was like, it's been a long winter and even though it hasn't been a particularly cold winter, it's just fun to get out and do a little adventuring. So. Yeah, good times. |
| James Stacey | The last few years since we started doing the cottage thing, like the cottage cabin property, this time of year, I really start to... My brain starts to go like, you're not that far away from going up for a Saturday and seeing what's going on at the property and what's still standing and that sort of thing. And the ability to do a bit of camping, especially like... Look, if we're gonna have warmer springs in this part of the world, Yeah, obviously due to regrettable scenarios with global warming, but I mean still make the most of it. It's I'm not going to change the global warming issue by not camping or by camping on the weekends. Yeah, so I think I think that could be a nice thing, especially with what March is like getting ready for watches and wonders a nice little getaway on the weekends to go spend a night under the stars and build a fire and that kind of thing. So I definitely think that having something like that, especially in a scenario where you do get a pretty serious winter when it hits, like Minnesota, I think just gives you that flexibility of like, if it's not that hard to set up, then the barrier to entry to still go out isn't that bad. You've got the Land Rover, you can find a spot in the snow to put it down and just kind of enjoy, even if it is just a night, a night away is pretty nice. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I was surprised at kind of how easy it all was. I think the idea of of a hot tent is a little bit intimidating. It's not like, you know, I've always done my camping and dome tents, which go up very easily. It's just kind of those shock corded poles. You run them through some sleeves, stake out the corners and you're done. And I thought this was going to be much more involved, kind of like some big, you know, army tent. And it was, it was very easy. And you know, I'm always so pleased when, when we go camping and you, you look around, you know, here we are lying in this tent. very luxuriously on a couple of cots with a little table and a fire going. And I thought we, I mean, okay, we didn't backpack in with all this stuff, but like this all fit in the back of our vehicle. And like, here we are like spread out, like in this pretty comfy scenario, keeping warm out in the woods for a couple of days. And there's just something so satisfying and then to come home and, and have that contrast is, is something I want to do. I think I always want to do it regularly going forward because it's just, uh, it just gives you such an appreciation, not only for the conveniences of home, but also, um, just sort of the basic and kind of simple pleasures of building a fire and staying warm and packing properly and cooking a good meal. And man, coffee tastes so good in the woods. I just love that first cup of coffee. |
| James Stacey | Oh, I mean, nothing tastes as good as food cooked in the woods. Yeah. Food, coffee, whatever you got. Whiskey never tastes better. Beer never tastes better. It's all, it's all. Oh yeah. You know, obviously you have a lot of room in the Land Rover. Would it be more than you could put on a little sled? and drag to a slightly more off-site area if you were willing to put the said dragging work in? |
| Jason Heaton | Well, I think that was the intention of these tents to begin with. So we were kind of almost cheating by doing it in a vehicle. And if you look at their website and some of the video links of people that use these, they were developed, especially in this area, for kind of ski camping or snowshoeing up in the Boundary Waters canoe area up near the Ontario border up there where it's just, you know, you're just skiing across a frozen lake and setting up. And so you're towing all this stuff on a little pulk or toboggan or something and, and doing it that way. And therefore everything is kind of lighter weight. I mean, it's not super light, but, but the stove is actually quite, quite light. And that would be fun. That would be a fun adventure to do. If you had some time, I certainly wouldn't want to tear down and get moving every single day, but I think if you kind of skied in for a full day and then like plunked yourself down for two or three nights, I think that'd be a really, really fun getaway. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I think if we'd had more snow up here this year, you brought up snowshoeing briefly, that was absolutely like number one on our list. Yeah. Was to snap up some snowshoes and we bored them in the past, but every time that I get out on a pair of snowshoes, especially up at the cottage property, it's just so nice to have the ability to move pretty freely through the space because a couple of years ago, we were up there in three extra feet of snow. And you could just kind of cut your own path. It's pretty difficult to not be able to backtrack. So getting lost isn't that big of a concern because you've made it quite a trail with the snowshoes. Yeah. But then we just flat out didn't have the season for it. I'm not sure that if we'd gotten it, if we would have had more than one or two weekends to put them to use this year. Yeah. Without traveling some distance. |
| Jason Heaton | Right. Yeah. Yeah, it's the contrast between this winter and last winter is just remarkable. And they just had the first, first world cup cross country ski races here this past weekend here in Minneapolis. And I believe it's the first on American soil possibly ever. Um, and it was, it was this huge event. And fortunately last Wednesday, Minneapolis got, you know, seven inches of snow. So it kind of pretty things up and made the trails nice for the race. But, uh, where we were two hours South, even. Uh, it was bare ground. So yeah, really a weird, weird year, but good times. Totally. It was really fun. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. All right. You want to jump into a little bit of risk check and then we can play the tape with, uh, Correll. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, definitely. Well, I've got on, uh, you know, my connection with Correll was, uh, several months ago, he got in touch and wanted to send me a prototype of their monolith watch that they're developing. And look, I'm not going to talk much about it because he goes into some good detail about this thing. I'll just say that I've been wearing it off and on for the past couple of months doing a variety of things with it and as as you'll hear him say I mean this watch weighs nothing and it's due to the material that they make it out of as well as the fact that it's kind of hollowed out for insulation purposes with some air core built into the the case itself but it's it's a it's a really neat thing and I am wearing it on Quite an interesting strap, actually, and I'll talk about that in final notes. But yeah, I thought it was fitting to wear, of course, the barrel hand monolith today. So that's what's on my wrist. |
| James Stacey | Yep, nothing, nothing hugely surprising here. I'm back on the game with the Pelagos 39. I've had it on for the last several days. And you know, I love it. I can't talk. I don't need to talk more about it. It's been the last year and a half's worth of episodes. But that's all I've got on. And really, there was no need to pick some watch to add another five minutes. We got a solid nearly an hour with Carell. Yeah. So let's jump into that. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. I mean, we don't like to necessarily do back-to-back chat episodes or interview episodes, but this just seemed so fitting and the timing was perfect for it. So today's guest is Carell Bashand. Carell is the founder, CEO, and chief engineer at Barrelhand Watch Company. He's an independent watchmaker and engineer. He's based in Northern California. And he actually started his career at NASA Ames Research Center where he was developing simulated microgravity devices. And he'll talk a little bit about that in our chat, which is a really interesting thing as well. He's an expert in 3D printing and his take on watchmaking is about as different from Dr. Struthers as you could get. Without further ado, let's get into it with Karel Bashan. All right. Well, we're pleased to welcome Karel Bashand to TGN. Karel, thanks for joining us early your time on the Pacific coast there. How are you doing? |
| Karel Bashan | Good, good, good to be here. Thanks for having me. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Well, you know, we, you know, we hadn't, we'd planned to talk to you at some point, but this is kind of a big week for, for Barrelhand, your company, and we'll, we'll get into all the background and all of that. But, Why don't you just kick things off with the exciting news? I mean, tell us what's happening this week. And in fact, when this episode goes live, all fingers and toes crossed, uh, something moment, momentous will, will occur here. Right. Tell us about that. |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully the stars align. So we have a payload on board the first lunar mission since the Apollo program, basically. So, um, there's this company named intuitive machines. They're based out in the U S and they're attempting the first private company lunar lander mission. Um, so if they're successful, it'll be the first time the U S has gone back in like 50 years. So historically, just from a space perspective, it's a big milestone. And then, um, for us, we're also testing some hardware on it for our new project we're working on, which is a watch. |
| Jason Heaton | Let's be clear, right? |
| Karel Bashan | Which is a watch. Yeah. Tool watch. |
| Jason Heaton | We'll swing back to that in a bit. And you can tell us a little more about that or at least what you can tell us about it. Um, But you know, for, for space nerds, I think this mission probably has been on people's radar, so to speak. Um, but it kind of crept up on me. I mean, you were sending me some updates last week about the launch and things like that. But, um, you know, with kind of all the news and flurry around different private companies, SpaceX and blue origin and all the, everything that's kind of going on in terms of space exploration and travel back to the moon and going on to Mars, et cetera. I feel like it, it sort of gets lost in the, And kind of the noise. Um, but this is a pretty significant thing, isn't it? How did you get hooked up with it? |
| Karel Bashan | I mean, it's been a long journey. So we've been working on this project for over a year, but it's true what you say too. I feel like for how big of a milestone it is just from the space industry. It's funny how small it feels in the scope of the media. There's so much like noise. I feel lately that. It's hard to pick out like the truly like historical milestone moments that are happening in this world. And even before the intuitive machines mission, that's on route now. So it left earth orbit and it's going to land if successful on the moon in two days. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, and we're recording and we're recording this on a Tuesday. So when this goes live, yeah, yeah. Thursday at 6 AM might've already touched down. |
| Karel Bashan | Okay. |
| Jason Heaton | All right. |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah, it'll be on its descent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy to be a part of, and it's crazy just to witness as well. Um, and even last month there was another private company called Astro Robotics. Uh, they tried landing their Peregrine. Uh, it crashed on landing. That's kind of been the, the flow so far with private companies trying to land. Um, there was iSpace that you might've heard of. They're based in Japan. |
| Comments/Reactions | Yeah. |
| Karel Bashan | And they tried landing last year and that was also a fuel issue on landing, I think. So it's just. It's not an easy task. And the fact that we did it 50 years ago with like pen and paper and we did it the first go with people on it. That's like, that's crazy. That's so crazy. And now we have like all this state of the art technology. We have advanced computers to do the simulations and it's still like An insane feat. So I'm really excited. I, you know, I'm optimistic, but at the same time, like, yeah, it could very well crash on landing and it's still a cool mission to be a part of. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Well, before we get too deep into this, let's back up a bit because we kind of skipped over the important bits here. I feel like we need to kind of learn a little bit about your background and also about barrel hand. So tell us about your, your own background and then how barrel hand came about. |
| Karel Bashan | For sure. So I can maybe go back to. A quick intro of like how I got into watches. Um, I was 17 in college. I just started like my freshman year as a mechanical engineer. And I don't know if you guys remember, but like 2010 watch industry, all these brands were putting out. Like the craziest CGI you could think of. Everyone was playing around with like exploded views and all this cool, uh, like basically showcasing the inner workings, which. For me, not knowing anything about watches prior, that was like an engineer's wet dream. That was like the coolest thing you could imagine, um, to do something at that scale too. So I had seen one of her works like crazy exploded views. And I was like, need to own one of these, didn't know what an expensive watch was. So to keep a long story short, there was no way I was going to afford it at the time. So I basically started reverse engineering it on my computer. And modeling all the components, uh, in solid works, which is like a 3d modeling program. And after a year of like modeling it, I was like, okay, I think I could maybe try to manufacture it. Um, manufacturing is not cheap, especially for precision components like that to CNC machine, one-off stuff would be super expensive. So that's kind of how it got me into 3d printing too, was just out of necessity. You just. I learned all about watchmaking through reverse engineering, and then I get to manufacturing, and there was like this new kind of wave of manufacturing with 3D printing that made it really accessible even for someone like me on a college student budget to produce and prototype something of that level of intricacy. So I basically recreated the Urwerk UR202, fully functional, you can run through and all the barrels rotate and stuff. Um, and then after that I was, uh, I got to meet with her work. They invited me out, uh, cause they had seen the project and they just wanted to learn about 3d printing. And also they saw I was a total fan boy. So it was cool that they invited me for that. Um, it was during like a S I H H or something like that at the time you were doing this kind of on the side because you were |
| Jason Heaton | You were in school for mechanical engineering, not related to watches. Not at all. Is that part of a school project or was that just like in the evenings and the weekends kind of just tinkering? |
| Karel Bashan | I tried to make it a school project, but I don't think they fully understood what I was doing. So it was just personal, like passion project on the side. I would just spend like as soon as I got back from class, I was just tinkering away at this thing. So it was super fun and I learned a lot from it. And then when I met with air work, they kind of. Inspired me. They were like, you know, if, if you're going to do something. Of this level of complexity, like you should really try like creating your own designs and that, you know, hearing that from your, your idols, I was like, all right, I'm like drawing sketches on, on the flight back to California. It was like the first time I had left the U S in general, and then, um, started on what was, uh, to be project one, which we launched a couple of years ago. |
| Jason Heaton | Wow. Yeah. You know, did you ever foresee watches becoming a career line for you or starting a company? I mean, it sounds like it was kind of a side project that took over. Um, but you have a background in, you know, we started the show here talking about the lunar mission here. Um, you have a background or a connection with NASA, right? Was that kind of a direction you were going to go? |
| Karel Bashan | I was always interested in space. Um, so I had, uh, for my senior project as a mechanical engineer, you kind of do like a, yeah, a senior project where you build something like a year long project. And we had gotten a contract with NASA to develop a simulated microgravity device. So, uh, Ames Research Center was right next to my university, San Jose state. So we would go over there and basically they wanted to develop a, a device that could simulate Like zero gravity or microgravity. So they could test plant cells and see how the roots grow and stuff like that. So that was a super cool project. Um, just tons of insights from that as well. But, um, I was always interested in space, but. I didn't really find like a specific path where there was a lot of creative freedom. It's very like engineering by the book. You just follow instructions almost. It's, it's, it's hard to. get creative on kind of like the design, the design side side of it. It's very like function focused, which now we're getting into, but at the time watchmaking was a really alluring thing for me, not so much the watches themselves, but the platform for innovation that it created to me, it was like, this is the Holy grail of engineering. And it really pushes you if you can implement a new technology or Make something functional at that scale. It really. It's kind of the Holy grail of, of engineering in terms of precision, the tolerances you need, um, how small the parts are that need to be manufactured. So it was a really cool testing platform. And for me, what got me into watches was more the engineering and like the potential for innovation that I felt was like missing. I was like, there's all these cool new. Uh, 3d printing technologies, all these cool new, like manufacturing techniques. Why is this not being widely used or like trying to play around with it in the watch industry? So that that's kind of what project one was, was. To create a, I mean, it's almost like a concept car. It wasn't necessarily with intention. Oh, I'm going to. make a brand and I'm going to, I was just like, this is a personal project and if people want it cool, but I'm really going to use it to learn as much as I can from it. Try these new manufacturing techniques. Let's push the limits of 3d printing on it, see what's possible. And if I can sell one at the end of the day, cool. I can like try to recoup my costs from it, but it was kind of more of a, uh, a learning approach, uh, for project one. |
| Jason Heaton | It's, you know, last week we had, Rebecca Struthers on who is, I don't know if you listened to that episode, but we, we had, and she's this incredible master watchmaker over in the UK who restores very old watches and makes new watches by very traditional techniques and watchmaking. I mean, we're looking at opposite ends of the spectrum within a week of, of our show here. You know, so much of watchmaking is about tradition and looking back and traditional techniques and finishing and that sort of thing. And you're, you kind of came at it from a whole different perspective because you didn't have that background. You had this mechanical engineering background. the 3d printing aspect. And, um, you know, so much of watchmaking is look, looking backwards and you were, you're definitely looking the opposite direction, really. |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah. And it's interesting that you say that too, because if you, if you do look backwards at what timekeeping used to be about, it was the most functional, the most innovative field. I mean, these were historically, they were always tools. It was, you're developing a Marine chronometer. You need to map out the longitudes. That stuff needs to be super precise. Um, you're going to the top of Mount Everest or you're bringing a watch to the moon. Like you needed, these were purely tools and it had to be functional. There was no time for gimmicks. It was just. How can we make this withstand the environment or the application and make sure it meets the criteria. And so, you know, throughout history, as far as we've been keeping time, it's always been a very, forward-thinking approach of, you know, using new technologies. If there's new metallurgy, people were using that. You look at Breguet developing, I don't know, the overcoil or the parachute-like shock system. I mean, if he was alive today, I think he would be surprised to see, like, you know, where's this, like, innovation? Because, you know, when the quartz crisis hit, as you guys know, it's like, All the brands switched to luxury. It was like, that was the new status quo. There wasn't a specific need to innovate and there wasn't a environment where. The demand was such that the current watches couldn't really meet those standards. So it kind of just became, I mean, like a luxury kind of design thing. And most watches you'll see today, it's, it's more looking back on the past or they're trying to create, you know, something that is like pseudo innovative where it's like, they'll use a cool new case material that doesn't really do anything different, but it looks cool or it sounds cool in the, in the press release. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. Yeah. And I'm curious with, with project one, just to put a timestamp on when that kind of came to actual commercial fruition that we're talking 2019, 2020. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So we, |
| Karel Bashan | we had gone into production of project one in 2020, and it was about seven years of like total development from like start to completion where we were doing deliveries. So it was a long project. And I think the most time consuming on that too, is setting up infrastructure here in the U S um, if you look at any watch that gets made now, it's most likely coming from a one-stop shop. Um, whether it be a US company, a Swiss company or a Japanese company. It's like most of these people are not going to build a supply chain from scratch. They're going to hit up a one stop shop, usually in Geneva or in China. And, you know, they have their list of suppliers. They put it together. But it's also kind of limiting for for us, at least where we wanted to use a lot of new Innovative technologies that the watch industry is not connected with. So because we approached it from a mechanical engineering kind of pursuit, we were completely removed from the watch industry, which meant. We're decentralized. We can't use their supply chain, but at the same time, some room to explore. Yeah. Yeah. It gave us a lot of freedom to really build something that no one had ever really developed because the watch industry is so insular. So. It took a couple of years to set up all this supply chain in the US, but well worth it now. And for building like monolith, it makes it already much easier. |
| James Stacey | I think the other thing that stood out to me is when I went back over that timeline, you know, kicking off in say 2013, 2014 with a project, you know, technology eventually settles down into having a certain cycle for its generations. But I can only speak through the experience of a few friends who are very deep into 3D printing. There's been about 20 generations of 3D printing since 2013, maybe more, right? |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, I get goosebumps thinking about how fast it's moving and I don't think most people have a pulse on just how fast it is, where when I was in high school and I first got access to a 3D printer, we had this state-of-the-art printer that the school had bought, I think it was like a hundred thousand dollars. And it printed plastic at 0.3 millimeters. So basically each layer was 0.3 millimeters, which at the time was like revolutionary. And now with project one or with monolith, what we're building now, uh, we can print titanium stainless steel at 0.02 millimeters. So it's like, I mean, 10 times more precise and it's in basically any material you want. |
| James Stacey | So precision, that's, that's the difference between SD and 4k. Yeah, it's crazy. Like just in terms of like thinking in resolution, exactly. I'd be able to understand like that's such a huge development. Yeah, it must have been interesting to have seen earlier rapid prototypes that came off of conventional maybe home plus or even SME style machines. And then up into the stuff that you guys are probably have access to now. You're building an entirely different product in terms of its finesse, right? |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah. It's insane. What it allows you to do is really revolutionary in my opinion. You think about what that entails and the doors that opens up. And I think that's why for me, I was like, why is the watch industry not using this? Because imagine you can print, I mean, You can basically bake in your tolerances. So at 0.02 millimeters, that's like the tolerances that you usually play with for very precise components in like a gear train. So if you can print at that resolution, and you can do it in just about any material, the possibilities are endless. Now you're looking at, could you potentially 3D print an entire movement monolithically? You could just plug and play and have this gear train working straight out of the printer. 100% there yet because now there's friction issues if you just print it all in one material. But let's say someone is able to print multi-material where you could print ceramics and steel in the same layer. And now you can make, uh, like Ruby bearings kind of thing. And all of a sudden you could monolithically print something that, that could function straight out of printers. So that's, that's maybe, you know, five, 10 years out, but we're getting into that stage and we're already. Uh, like for us, we're 3d printing movement bridges, uh, like we did for project one. Um, and we don't do post-processing. It's like we print. In steel, a movement bridge. And then we basically, you know, we finished it and stuff for project one, but that to me is like a huge leap in what's possible. |
| Jason Heaton | Uh, just 10 years ago, the way you came at watches and this project grew organically out of, out of your, your training, schooling and your own personal interest. And then it became. you know, it just happened to be a watch. I mean, it could have been, you might've been 3d printing a automobile engine or, you know, what kitchen gadget or whatever it is, but happened to be a watch. And then you kind of expanded that and lo and behold, barrel hand was, was created. But I think, you know, to your point, I think the, the watch collecting world is, as you mentioned, it's, it's about luxury. And I think luxury it's, it's like this philosophical difference between if I'm going to pay a lot of money, I want it to be something that was, you know, carved by a human being and finished painstakingly over weeks and months. And you know, it took a year to make this watch and whatever. And it almost flies in the face of that philosophy for, you know, a young upstart like you to come along and say, I want to just 3d print an entire watch that comes out of the machine, ready to go. It, it seems like blasphemy almost, but I feel like that also goes along with what you were saying earlier about timekeeping having used to be a, a means to an end, a tool for use. And nowadays it isn't that. And so I think people look for different reasons for collecting it and owning it and using it. Um, and I think it's just, it's fascinating. I feel like the industry needs both sides of it. I think, I think we need people like you and barrel hand to kind of shake things up, but there will always be people that are in kind of the Rebecca Struthers camp who want, you know, something where the gear teeth were literally cut by hand on a hundred year old machine, you know, |
| Karel Bashan | Absolutely. And I think that's, what's beautiful about any art form, whether you look at like music is you can appreciate many different genres. And to me, it's funny that. I think the watch industry is kind of like very, it gets clicky sometimes where it's like, Oh, like there's the tool watch, like click. And then there's the like luxury watch click. And it's like, to me, I I've always greatly appreciated like someone that can make a watch from scratch. without the tools I'm using and they're doing it on a lathe by hand, that to me is, is equally mind blowing. And, uh, you know, you can appreciate, uh, different genres. It's, it's all the same, like art and the same passion. Um, it's just like with music, like you could appreciate the artistry of like Mozart and also jam out to some Led Zeppelin and it's, it's equally good. |
| James Stacey | Yeah. |
| Karel Bashan | Just in different ways. |
| James Stacey | And it's also like at a certain extent, it's not that much fun to have one in the vacuum of the other. Like obviously the last, Jason, what would you say? Seven, eight, 10 years has been largely focused on new modern watches looking like watches from before when we used to actually need watches. Yeah. And that can't last forever. It's a trend, right? And I think all these other areas of the watch industry, including the very tech forward, obviously brands like Irvork, and it's so cool that you got to meet their team. They're such innovative, kind, fun people to be around when you see them. And especially if you get an introduction to their product from someone who worked at it or saw it in their brain and then made it become a reality that if you have the money, you can put on your wrist. All of that kind of stuff, I think, leads to some really interesting brands that maybe don't always enjoy or haven't enjoyed the core limelight focus of, say, 1939 to 1974, whatever we have currently for the last little while. But yeah, I think it's exciting and it's really cool to see. I'm excited to see what you guys carry forward from Project One into Monolith. Obviously, the Monolith section of your website is still functioning as a bit of a teaser, a preview, not a full reveal. So it's exciting to see what's on the horizon for that. |
| Karel Bashan | Thank you. Yeah, I think What I realized from project one, two, as I was finishing it was I realized I don't want to just design watches the rest of my life. It felt very like boxed in. And I think just approaching it from like, like, don't get me wrong either. Like I can appreciate the artistry and designs of just coming up with super novel concepts and coming up with like new complications. But I always felt like I wanted to apply it towards something and have like a functional use case, uh, for the things I was making and watches just kind of happened to be a really cool platform to test out and learn new things. And, and now with monolith, uh, we, we kind of want to approach what we're doing more as a technology company than a watch company. And instead of being so focused on, on watches specifically, We want to make tools. And so, uh, when you think of tools, you think of like a real world application. And to us, we were seeing, you know, the, this revival of the space industry where you're seeing moon landings starting to happen. Uh, space X is sending people up. Like it's a bus trip now where it's like every week it's crazy. And then you're seeing all this happen. And we were like, well, you know, no one is really. At least for watches, there hadn't been a lot of innovation happening for this very harsh, like extreme environment. Um, so monolith kind of became that first tool that we wanted to develop is how can we make something that is hyper-functional and built to withstand, uh, these extreme conditions. Cause no one had ever really designed specifically for this application of long durations. There have been watches that had passed. the tests of going into space and able to meet the criteria that NASA had set out, but to really build something from scratch ground up and think of what that entails was a really exciting project to start off on, uh, which is how we got into monolith. |
| Jason Heaton | Speaking of kind of looking backwards in the watch industry, the same lazy, as you just said, goes for kind of space themed watches. I mean, the Speedmaster is the ultimate example, right? It's a watch that was basically. developed in the late fifties and with a movement from the forties, um, that was approved by NASA used for EVAs and moon landings and, and orbits and that sort of thing. And then since then, I mean, I feel like nowadays we see private citizens or, or astronauts that are at the space station and they're wearing someone has someone out of Fortis and someone had, uh, you know, uh, Apple watch Rolex or an Apple watch or whatever. And I just feel like it's almost commonplace. Now a watch can survive those, I guess, brief, forays into space and maybe the occasional EVA, but when it comes to the goals of Monolith to kind of move into your forthcoming or current watch development, what are the goals there? What are the challenges with Monolith that you're seeking? Is it longer exposures to the vacuums of space and the temperature differentials and things? |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah, so the main mission is to build something that can withstand the next chapter of space exploration. So For the most part, we've, we've kind of backtracked. We, we do like EVA missions outside of the ISS for eight hours. Um, but beyond that, we actually haven't done super long missions or, or even missions to the moon. So we're kind of looking ahead of what those new missions will look like, what it's going to demand. Um, and we're going to spend longer amounts of times. We're going to be further out into space. Um, so we need to build something that's kind of made for that application and. The main things that, as you mentioned, um, temperature is a huge one. So you're looking at like minus 120 Celsius to plus 120 Celsius, and that's really cold, obviously. So it's, it's one thing to make a watch, you know, if it can withstand a couple hours, um, you know, eventually the coldness kind of creeps in. But we wanted to approach it as, can you make a watch sustainable in this environment? Could it just, you know, kind of run and operate where this is like a normal operating range for this watch? So that's kind of how we're approaching the temperature side of it. Then you have solar radiation, which might not seem like a big thing, but that's also like kind of what guided us towards mechanical watches was out of necessity. We weren't just trying to make A tribute to mechanical watches. It was like, okay, if you have electronics, um, uh, for example, if you look at the Omega, like X 33, you could use it in the space station. But as soon as you bring like a liquid crystal display. Outside into those environments, it's going to freeze up after a couple hours. So you kind of realize that there's advantages to simple mechanical systems that are super redundant. Um, and with solar radiation, you can also get like, uh, electronics that get fried or, you know, some, some bits get flipped and now all of a sudden it's not running the operation you want it to. So. It, it basically came out of necessity that we wanted to go mechanical. It wasn't just to pay tribute. It was like, uh, same thing for when you go diving, it's, I hear a lot of people. You know, always have like a mechanical backup and it sounds like, Oh, they're paying tribute to the fifties divers, but really it's like, you want that redundancy. If your dive computer fails, you want something that's going to withstand, uh, and be kind of that. Resilient backup. So the same applies for space exploration as well. |
| Jason Heaton | It's such a beautiful thing, isn't it? I mean, I love that. Still relying on something mechanical as a backup to the most forward thinking technologically advanced. you know, watches in space. I mean, it's just, it's just so poetic. It's so perfect. I love that. What's kind of the function that you're after with a watch? I mean, initially is it just, it's going to be time only, but do you see any specific functions that would be handy in space? I mean, telling time is obviously important on its own, but do you foresee any unique functions that are relevant to space exploration? |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah. So we're already kind of exploring some, some projects down the line, Um, on the side that are being developed. But, uh, for now, like the one that you've been beta testing as well, it's, it's simple time only. And the idea with that was. There's so many things to think about in developing a watch. That's really built for space that we wanted to start with like the simplest platform. So it's like, let's start with time only. Let's make it as robust as possible and really make this the platform that we can then build off of. So, uh, of course, naturally the next one would be a chronograph. That's kind of classic in terms of what's been used in the past. And it's a hyper-functional tool, whether you're diving or in deep space. Just some way to kind of like timestamp is, uh, hyper-functional. Um, and then you could get into. Uh, GMT type functions. So keeping track of time in different areas, whether you're, you know, you got earth time and then your local time may be in souls, uh, the unit for Mars as an example. So. You know, that's, that's kind of down the road, but, um, as far as like timing devices, there's many different routes you can go down. Um, but naturally we wanted to build something that was like the most bare bones, basic functional tool. And then we can kind of build off of it from there. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. And tell us a little bit about what you can tell us, at least at this point about Monolith. Tell us about some of the features of this watch. Now I'm wearing the kind of the, one of the prototypes that you sent me. And certainly the case is a standout. There are unique aspects of the case, but tell us a little bit about other things like, like this unique, I don't know if you call it nano printed case on the back. Tell us all about the watch or what you can tell us. |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah, sure. So, As I was mentioning earlier with the temperature, um, range that's present in space, we wanted to make something that was insulated. Um, and so the case or the chassis, we call it is, uh, 3d printed in a. Material called scale Malloy. So it's, it's a new type of alloy. That's as light as aluminum with the strength of titanium. Um, so we wanted it to be ultra light, so it's not expensive to send to space, uh, cost per kilo is like 20,000, uh, us. So any weight reduction you can make, uh, it goes a long way. Um, so it's this ultra light material, uh, for the chassis it's used in aerospace already for satellites and stuff like that. Uh, but scowl Malloy is not something that you ever see in a consumer product or, uh, like the average like what you could see like and handle in your hand. So that's also going to be a first as as like a consumer facing product for using scalloy. And the way that we 3d print the chassis, we created a air core insulation system. So basically, the inside of the chassis is completely hollowed out during the printing process, we basically don't print this like hollow chamber, And it acts as an insulation barrier to further, uh, keep the movement inside where the engine, uh, at an ambient temperature, because there's only so much you can do on like making a engine run in those temperatures. So it's better to actually, you know, create a system where it insulates it so that by the time you're at the engine, it's, it's more or less an ambient temperature. Hmm. |
| James Stacey | Just a quick question there for those of us who aren't mechanical engineers, such as myself. Is the major concern with temperature, a huge temperature swing in a movement, actual expansion or retraction of some of the connecting points, so a change in the friction, or is it the fact that the oil stops doing what it's supposed to do at a certain point, or maybe both? |
| Karel Bashan | That's spot on. It's both of those. So expansion and contraction is, is huge, especially if you're looking at small moving parts, like in an engine where, I mean, you know, the, the moment the gear train is, is kind of out of alignment, it can slow down your timekeeping and lots of other things. So, um, we do the same thing, even on the kind of like macro scale of. The assembly of the watch itself. So we make sure that all the parts. Uh, expand and contract uniformly. So we kind of look at the thermal, uh, expansion ratios of all the different. Parts involved, whether it's like the chassis with the screws and the case back. So we're not having something that expands or contracts and kind of starts to rip, uh, the assembly apart. Um, so yeah, no, that's a good question. And it's something that, uh, you have to think about, you can't just kind of like plug things together and hope that the temperatures won't affect it in the long term, especially on the engine. |
| James Stacey | Yeah, I mean, it's funny, Jason mentioned having Dr. Struthers on last week, and obviously a lot of our audience and Jason myself have read Dava Sobel's Longitude, the book, and maybe you have as well, Carol. And it's hilarious to go back and think of people making clocks for boats having to deal with kind of the same things that will happen on spaceships going out into space. It's a wider delta of temperature, to be fair. You can read about Harrison making elements of the clock out of specific pieces of wood that didn't change their profile that much in a 20 Celsius or 30 Celsius temperature swing. So it's kind of fascinating to think that this is still a problem or a challenge to making a watch for a difficult environment. |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah, a hundred percent. It feels like we're kind of embarking on a new, new frontier, even as the engineers, if we're not actively going to space, we're, we're kind of starting to think about how you approach these problems. And so you have to look at everything from the materials to, uh, just like how the parts are going to fit together too. There's a lot of innovation in the chassis. I can, I could go on with that one for a while, but. The main thing is that it has like an air core system and it's keeping the engine insulated. Um, we kept it super light. So the chassis itself, I think it's like around 10 grams. So the whole watch should be just right around one ounce when it's all done. Um, which is super light. It doesn't, we weren't like striving for, Oh, let's make the lightest watch in the world. But I mean, it's going to be like Richard mill territory, uh, on their ultra light stuff. So. Uh, just out of necessity, just trying to make something super light. We hollow out the case for the installation. So it just naturally kind of progressed in that route. Another feature that we have that's really cool is, uh, the crown system. So, uh, we have like, we call it an airlock crown system, but basically it's, uh, able to operate in vacuum as well as you could deep dive with it. So we've, we've pressure tested it at 57 bars. So like 570 meters. Um, which is overkill, no one's really diving that far anyways, but it's cool to know that you could do it. And then the other thing that's cool with this crown system is you can actually. Uh, operate it underwater or in vacuum. So, uh, so far we've been testing it and just kind of like, not, uh, just going diving and stuff with it. And you can operate the crown at around a hundred feet. So like, uh, You know, you could, you could get some pressure on it and the crown will still be operable, uh, whether it's in vacuum or, or deep underwater. So you can wind it, you could set it. Um, it's not something that is necessary, but I always liked the idea of having a tool where no matter where it is, you, you can't like misuse it. It's not like, Oh, if I press this button at the wrong time, it could scrap the whole thing. So the idea of just like a redundant system where. you know, if you want to be 20 meters underwater and you want to like change the time zone for some reason, you could. |
| Jason Heaton | Well, I think for future, for, for, for future thinking, I think, you know, when I think about space exploration in my mind, you know, when I wear this watch or when I I'm hearing you talk, I'm imagining scenarios out of Andy Weir's book, the Martian. And, you know, um, Mark Watney, his astronaut hero of the book, who's out doing a variety of things, fixing spacecraft, growing vegetables, exploring, whatever, like eventually it's not maybe anytime really soon, but people will be in greater frequency going to space, potentially to Mars, walking around on the moon. If there are colonies and things, those everyday things, um, that we do with a watch, like winding setting, changing the time, all of that, you're kind of thinking ahead, um, towards those things. So it's, the fact is like somebody might say, well, why would you need to wind or set your watch? in outer space or whatever. Well, okay. Now, maybe not, maybe not on a two hour EVA to fix something on the outside of the space station. You wouldn't, but eventually somebody might be, I don't know what, you know, wandering around going for a stroll on Mars someday. And they, well, gee, I, I've, my watch needs to be reset or something. You know, that's kind of, you're kind of thinking ahead for all of these eventual scenarios. Right. |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah, exactly. I think it's just nice to not have to think about those things, not have to think about using a tool in a certain way. It's just when you need it, it's there and you can use it however you need to. So yeah, a hundred percent. |
| Jason Heaton | All right. This, this little whimsical case back thing, you've got to, you've got to talk about that a bit. |
| Karel Bashan | The case back kind of came organically through our development of this watch, where if you look at how, we approach space exploration, it's, it's very engineering minded, and almost in like a sterile negative way, I would say. So if you think about like, being on the ISS, it's very like, engineer focused, they're not thinking about the psychology of space or what it is to live in a lab, essentially with white walls for six months is not like the most warm, welcoming experience. traditionally for space exploration, we're very like function focused. And we often don't think about the psychology of a space. But if you look back at even the early like missions into low earth orbit, people had been talking about this thing called the overview effect. I don't know if you guys are familiar with it. But basically, it's a phenomena that was coined in the 80s. And it basically describes how When you go into space and you're away from everything you've ever known, your family, your, your home, uh, like everything that humans have ever known is, is you're removed from it. And people, almost all astronauts report experiencing this kind of like awe inspiring moment, but also kind of existential. You're you're so far away and you can't get back. Um, you're, you're thinking about like, why is there. Yeah. Why do we have borders? Why, why is, why are we wrecking and like, so like competitive with each other? Why are we not working together? So there's a lot of psychology and philosophy that, that people kind of reflect on as you go into space. And it's something that's often overlooked. So, uh, we wanted to take that into consideration of, you know, what astronauts must feel to go into space and be that far away from home and that far away from all the like normal things that we do day to day with hanging out with family and friends. So we wanted to with monolith, explore all the technical challenges of space exploration. So the temperatures, the solar radiation, that sort of thing, but then also make it where it can have, uh, approach the psychological side of space exploration and Uh, you, you had mentioned this too, uh, on one of your recent posts about how, you know, watches are also very like sentimental and they're, they're like inspirational. It's like, you know, you take them on adventures and they're, they're personal in a way. So. Uh, I think that was like a good, uh, aspect to kind of bake into monolith and we wanted to create a, Connection to home. Um, so when astronauts are up in space, they have something that kind of grounds them or connects them back to earth. And when we thought of connection to home, we basically wanted to create a something that would, would give that connection. And so we developed something called the memory disc and it's using a new technology. It's. Basically nano engraving, uh, into a small nickel plate. The plate itself could last tens of thousands of years. So in terms of like durability, it's, you're kind of also preserving our timestamp in humanity. Uh, and then we also wanted to curate content from around the world to create this connection to home on this disc. And what's really cool about the disc too, is it's not like a USB drive or something that's going to be antiquated. in five years and you need to like, you know, extract the data, you can just use a magnifier or a microscope and actually see all the data visually. So it's easy to reverse extract, you know, 10,000 years from now, they're not going to have the encryption codes to decode your hard drive, but something like this, it's basically like small scale hieroglyphs. And so we have this baked onto the back of the watch and you can store about like five gigs of data. onto something the size of a quarter, uh, with this technology. So it's really cool what it allows you to do, but then what was really challenging was like, okay, well, what do we, what do we put on there? You know, it's, it's cool. Yeah. You could put all the books in the world or not all in the world, but you could put, you know, a library on there essentially, and thousands of photos. So we, we spent a long time thinking about like what we wanted to put on there. And, uh, in the end, we also realized that. we're not the experts on this. So we, we talked with psychologists, people that had been to space people, uh, like museums kind of like that do curations like this and, uh, start to get a sense of what we would want to put on there and all with the theme of connection to home. So we broke it up into four sections and each section kind of represents these different connections. So we have one, which is a connection to, uh, to yourself. So kind of like how you think of yourself and the connection you have or the relationship you have with yourself. The other is connection with other people. So how you like interact with the world. And then you have connection with Earth. So kind of like how you connect with your environment around you, and how that shapes your reality. So like exploring, for example, can, you know, shape how you see the world. And then the last one is connection to space. Because if you look at Historically, since like the dawn of like humans, we've always looked up to the stars and tried to make sense of what that is up there. And like, it, it makes us think, and it's something across cultures, you go to anywhere around the world and people have either a lore or history with, you know, the stars in some way. So, you know, there's tons of content baked into each of these four sections, but that's the general gist of what the memory disc represents. |
| Jason Heaton | And are these pieces of literature or photographs or artwork or give us a few examples, maybe. |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah, yeah, for sure. So it's a bit of everything. So for example, the connection to self, we put a, a children's book called Le Petit Prince. I don't know if you're familiar with it. Yeah, of course. |
| Comments/Reactions | Oh, sure. |
| Karel Bashan | So the idea with that was, well, one, we didn't want to just put like, I, know, there's so many choices of what you could put to create a connection to self. But we felt like children's stories are something that's been told for, you know, hundreds of thousands of years, people, you know, kind of like educate the next generation through storytelling. And Le Petit Prince is one of the most widely published, and I think it's the most translated book second to the Bible. So it just felt like a good fitting uh, book to put on there. And when people read, you also kind of reflect and there's a lot of like hidden symbolisms and people can read between the lines of something the author never even intended, but you kind of interpret it a certain way. So, uh, that's kind of like a connection to self, um, with connection to the world around you. We, we decided to put, um, pictures and paintings from around the world. So historical paintings, paintings from different countries, because we felt that by putting art, you're also showing like how people interpret the world around them. So it's kind of a really good representation of how different people around the world see Earth itself and their interpretation of it. |
| James Stacey | So just just for simplicity or explanation like that, when it comes to say a painting, let's say theoretically, one of the paintings you picked was the Mona Lisa. Is it like an engraving a, you know, uh, essentially like almost a, a high resolution line drawing of the Mona Lisa that can be seen like in blade runner fashion with a microscope. |
| Karel Bashan | It's, it's really cool actually. So yeah, it's exactly that. And we actually have the, the Mona Lisa on, on, on it as well. Um, but to give you an idea of scale with, with this technology, so it's called nano fish, uh, technology, and basically we can nano engrave the entire Mona Lisa in, in like a good resolution and the painting will be half a millimeter wide. So if you zoom in under a microscope, you can see the whole painting, but it takes up like, I mean, it's like the size of a grain of rice when you look at it from the back and it's all kind of holographic. So it really has a, a cool futuristic feel to it with all these engravings. So with a naked eye, you can't really see, uh, much you can kind of like make out the general shapes but as soon as you kind of like zoom in with a loop or a microscope you can it's the the resolution is incredible on it you've unlocked a brand new fear in me uh of possibly scratching this surface and then just wiping out an entire like piece of our cultural lineage from its record oh my goodness that's great that you said that because that's something we're we're like currently uh refining is how to preserve this so The disc itself can last like tens of thousands of years on earth. And then if it's on the moon, it could last a million years because it's not going to rust or really like oxidize in the same way. Um, but you still want to wear this watch and not think about, yeah, scratching through the face of like a priceless artwork somewhere else in the world. So, uh, we actually are sealing it, uh, in Sapphire. So it's basically you have the nickel plate and then you're sealing it in Sapphire. So. you can take a knife to it and you'll never have to worry about it. And it's also on the back, so it's less like front facing, but it's it's thick enough that you're of glass that you're not going to have to worry about breaking or scratching it. |
| Jason Heaton | You don't have to worry about the dreaded NATO strap rub. Yeah, exactly. |
| James Stacey | Just just slowly polishing away history. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, look, I have we've we've got you for at least a few more minutes here, but I have more of a concrete question. We've talked about the connection to space, this sort of very interesting high minded, like now I want, like I feel like I could buy just that plate as a piece of art would be fascinating. But speaking of the idea of being able to buy into this, any company at this point that makes something specific to space exploration has to expect a good portion of a certain type of niche enthusiast to want to own that product. This happened with a couple of very notable Seiko chronographs in the last few years that have become quite collectible. And that sort of thing. And I'm wondering, with Monolith, I assume that this is a traditionally commercial project. Would it be something that interested folks could get on a list for? Maybe it's limited. What's the sort of plan for those of us who maybe aren't planning to get to Mars necessarily, but do really think the watch is rad? |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah, for sure. So basically, our initial approach was to make a professional-grade tool watch. So our focus... has been to make this thing space ready, not just something that's like. Designed or inspired by space. It's it needs to work in those environments. So our primary focus has been a professional grade, uh, monolith, but we're also going to be making a civilian, uh, version, which is more or less the same and we'll make it accessible so that people can live vicariously through that next chapter of space exploration, even if they're not going up there anytime soon. |
| James Stacey | Right. And is it too early to comment on things like, you know, kind of size and pricing and that sort of thing? |
| Karel Bashan | No, no, I'm happy to share it. So it's 38 millimeters wide, it's 10.9 millimeters thick, and the pricing is going to be $87.50. |
| James Stacey | Oh, so super wearable despite being hyper modern and a price point that's what that puts it at less than a third of what Project One kind of hit the market at? |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah. And that was an interesting balance, too, if you think about. |
| James Stacey | To be fair, Project One was a very complicated. It was like if for people who are listening, please click the links in the show notes to understand what project because the two different projects, two different goals. Yeah, yeah, exactly. The Project One really does kind of live in that in the realm of the work. And I think the I don't want to be unfair to the pricing of the model pricing that they did. They had different goals. So check them both out there, Brad. |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah. I think to speak on that too, there's two different approaches, uh, with project one, it's like purely, uh, like, it's almost like a concept piece, like a concept car. And then with monolith, we're kind of going a functional approach to it. |
| Jason Heaton | And in terms of timing, um, you're obviously on the, you know, well, as, as we're talking here, uh, hopefully on the moon at this point, but the, for instance, the prototype I'm wearing, when you sent it to me, you said, Don't pay attention to the dialer hands. They're kind of dummies. You know, you're still working on that. Um, obviously there's refinements and things, but what's, what's kind of your timetable for. For completing this. |
| Karel Bashan | Um, so we're going to be opening, opening reservations this week and then, uh, for pre-order and then we're planning to do deliveries this summer. So like quarter three, 2024 is, is kind of what we're aiming for. So we're, we're more or less finalized. We're like tweaking some stuff. We have to go through certification testing. Um, and we're actually, I'm going out to our assembly partners, uh, in a couple of weeks to assemble the final, like pre-production prototype. So kind of all the final tweaks and refinements, and then we can go into production with it. |
| Jason Heaton | Wow. Amazing. Well, I mean, this has been such a fascinating discussion. Um, Carell, what, uh, if people want to learn more about this, uh, I'm assuming we'll send them to the website. Uh, any other kind of places you want us, I want us to. post for, for notes, maybe your Instagram or something. |
| Karel Bashan | Yeah, sure. So our Instagram is just at barrel hand. Um, and we do a lot of updates there. So if you're into the nitty gritty engineering stuff that most people don't want to deep dive into, but if you're into that kind of stuff, I highly recommend checking out the Instagram. Cause we talk about the, the 3d printing that we're using, why we do the air core, how we design the air core for the chassis and All the nitty gritty stuff, I kind of just, we, we post it, uh, as we're working on it, uh, on Instagram. So people can see the process and learn about each component. |
| Jason Heaton | Cool. And then it's a barrel hand.com and there's all the details there as well. And I just have to throw this in because I just learned in some digging through the website that, that the name barrel hand is actually kind of a. Interesting sort of a tweak on your name, which is a Corral Bashan. You kind of morphed that into barrel, which I found that just, just, just wonderfully, uh, wonderfully whimsical and fun. |
| Karel Bashan | Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And we're excited for the moon mission. So if anyone wants to watch, I think it'll still be ready in orbit. If anyone wants to watch the live stream, they're going to try to, there's going to be a camera that pops out of the lunar Lander. And tries to record its own descent as it's landing on the moon. So whether it crashes or not, however, it works out, uh, it's, it's worth tuning in just from a space history standpoint. Um, and, and like we were talking about in the beginning, uh, on this lunar lander, we have a carbon copy of the memory disc. So that will be preserved on the moon for, for as long as the moon is up there. And then a carbon copy will be on every monolith case back. |
| James Stacey | Oh, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much. It really has. |
| Karel Bashan | Thank you guys so much for joining us. It's been a blast. |
| James Stacey | Make sure everybody hit the show notes. We'll have all these links in there. Obviously, you can't speak out a link. Maybe someday we can nano engrave them into into some sort of a collection. But yeah, this is Carol. This has been awesome. Obviously, best of luck with the future of the monolith, but a real treat to talk to you and to get a look into an entirely kind of novel perspective on watchmaking and the tech behind it. |
| Karel Bashan | Hell yeah. Thanks so much, guys. Really, really appreciate it. |
| James Stacey | All right. Well, we love having guests on the show. We've had a couple of great ones recently, and it's really a pleasure to add Karel Beauchamp to that list. What a treat to have him on. He's a really easy guy to talk to and clearly has a fascination for watches that extends beyond just his avenue as far as creating his own watches with barrel hand, It was an absolute treat. We're recording this before we know the outcome of the lunar mission. So be sure to hit the show notes for that. That includes a link to the webcam. So if you if you're really early on this one, which will go up at like 6 a.m. on the 22nd, you might have a chance to still watch that live. Otherwise, I'm sure there'll be links to capture it afterwards. Pretty exciting stuff all the way around. And I'm genuinely excited after chatting with Karel to see what the what the watch looks like and what it feels like when it's all done and ready to go. So that's, that's also exciting to have that, you know, on the horizon for the summer of this year. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. He was a, he was such a fun guest and we thank him again for, for coming on and look, stay tuned to this guy and to barrel hand, because I think there's some totally some big, really interesting stuff ahead for them. |
| James Stacey | All right. Solid episode. Another one I'm really pumped about. Let's jump into a final notes and put a bow on it for this week. You want to go first? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, sure. Um, as I mentioned, uh, during a risk check, I've got the, uh, the monolith and I'm wearing it on, uh, one of the new straps from watches of espionage. Uh, he has a strap shop in addition to his, uh, his fun, uh, dispatches that he, that he writes. Uh, the new strap is called the Glomar Explorer, which is a fun wink at kind of an old CIA project from, from years ago. And you can read more about that, uh, in the link to the strap on our, on our show notes. But, uh, this is a strap that, that he developed that kind of mimics the form factor of the Tudor Pelagos FXD strap. So it's a hook and loop style single piece strap that threads through and then kind of folds back on itself after you pass it through the keeper. Um, it's identical in length to the FXD strap. It's, uh, I would say it's almost a little more robustly built. There's a, there's a lot of extra stitching around the hook and loop patches, which I think keep it a little bit more secure. I guess the hardware, I don't really consider it a buckle, but the hardware that you pass the strap through is not dissimilar to the FXD one. It's a little more squared off, but it's kind of neat. It's got the, the watches of espionage logo engraved on one side. And then on the back, there's a little wink to his kind of tagline, which is use your tools. And, um, as of now, I believe it comes in black and Admiralty gray. And, uh, I've got the, the monolith on a black strap, but he also sent me one of the gray ones, which I had been wearing on the, on the Pelagos, uh, when we were camping this past weekend. Yeah, I really like it. I like the style of strap anyway. And I think it's nice to have some options other than, you know, strictly a NATO strap. And I think what, what he's done with the Glomar Explorer is he's kind of taken that form factor and then he's added a key device, which is the keeper. It's a woven keeper. So it kind of, you can tuck the Velcroed end under the keeper and it really makes all the difference. It kind of keeps the, the flap from catching on clothing and kind of coming loose and ripping loose when you're wearing it with a sweater or a jacket or something. |
| James Stacey | And I guess it probably also helps where if your wrist isn't the perfect size so that the tail just makes it to the end of the hook and loop patch, then you have some flexibility for just keeping it where... If your wrist is a little smaller and maybe it has a bit of a hang, that way you could tuck that in so it's not just kind of holding open and wrist shots or bothering you throughout the day. I think these look incredible. 20 and 22 millimeters, 58 bucks. I think it's fair to say that these are sort of the same sort of thing as like, say, our TGN NATOs. They're designed to help support watches of espionage. Right. But $58, if you compare to what you'd spend for some of the other great sort of nylon straps on the market, including, say, replacing one or buying one from Tudor, not an unreasonable price point. You know, I would love, definitely like to check one of these out at some point. I think they're really slick. I love the gray. Obviously it'd be, you know, speaking selfishly, it'd be rad to see them in 21 as well for stuff like the Pelagos 39, the Miiga, the Longines, but definitely makes a ton of sense in 20 and 22. So yeah, I was super impressed with the previous straps that they put out and I think these ones look awesome. So glad to hear that you're enjoying it. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Good stuff. All right. What do you have today? |
| James Stacey | Yeah, mine today is actually a YouTube video from a buddy of mine, Gajan Balan. I met Gajan at the Leica event, the celebration of photography, usually in the fall. And Gajan's a Toronto-based photographer and YouTuber and sort of photography mindset guru guy that does these all sorts of different sort of travel-based stuff and stuff for learning photography. And there's a lot to catch up on there with Gajan, because he's got a lot of things on the go. But one of the things that he does is he'll review new cameras that are popular to a certain type of photographer, and that includes the brand new Fujifilm X100 VI. I kind of brought this up because as soon as this camera was released, it kicked off a conversation in the Slack about these sorts of cameras. So the Fujifilm X100 series has been around for some time. I owned a T, which I believe is the second or the third series. And then obviously the five is where they really hit a huge stride. It became very difficult to buy that camera. It was always kind of out of stock. It was kind of always compared in the same sentences as like a great enthusiast multi-purpose camera that was well made with good image quality, right in there with the Ricoh GR3, which I recommend all the time to people. And of course, if you have the budget and it fits your needs, the Leica Q platform is excellent as well. But I think these ones kind of stride the line between something that's a little bit more on the point and shoot side, like the Ricoh, or a little bit more on the sort of almost at times needlessly premium line, like the Leica. Yeah. And kind of sits in the middle. It is more expensive than the five, and that's going to make the five a very sort of compelling secondhand purchase or NOS purchase moving forward. But if you need more and better and all that kind of stuff from the platform, I think these still offer a ton of everyday useful, including travel sized camera in a package that they just kind of keep refining. And I watched a bunch of the videos, David ML from MKBHD, he has another fantastic video, but I really enjoyed Gajan's look at it. It's just the first look, it's not a full review, he'll have another very, very deep sort of consideration of the camera once he's used it more. But I think if you want a starting point on what's become a fairly common question for Jason and I, which is like, I'd like to get into photography. Where do I start? Yeah, with a camera and genuinely the answer is like start with your phone. But if you're gonna if you want to make the leap off of the phone to a dedicated platform, that's very sort of tuned to the traditions of photography. I think the Fuji film is an excellent option and they make a lot of lovely cameras and where this maybe goes a step further than a Rico is you have adapters for the lens. You can have a teleconverter, you can have a wide converter, It does a few more things. I'm not saying it necessarily is a better camera. That's such like a nebulous concept now. Photos that won every award in the world were made on cameras older, weaker, less resolution than the stuff we have today. So it always comes down to your personal creativity. But as a tool for that creativity and for the fascination of cameras and photography, I think these are a really interesting platform. I think this would be an excellent camera for you, Jason, if you wanted to move back into a small digital carry-on. I know that you do a great job with your phone, so it's probably unnecessary, but in that same vein as the... What was the Nikon you had, the DF? |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah, I still have that. I still pull it out from time to time. |
| James Stacey | That's such a cool camera, the DF. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. The X100 has been on my radar for a long time. I remember a friend that we used to camp with, bringing it back to that, many years ago, he had the first generation. And he just, he loved that camera. And he, he always was trying to kind of talk me into getting one. Cause I was still carrying around kind of an SLR and, and, um, yeah, these have always been compelling and I've kind of been, haven't been paying attention to the camera world for the past year or two. And so when this popped up and you put that link and I started looking at this and, you know, it looks identical to the first generation, uh, X 100 really, um, which is kind of. Refreshing. It's kind of nice to see. And then they're just sort of making improvements to it. But, uh, yeah, you're right. It really is a compelling camera, um, to, to consider. And if I ever do decide to kind of wade back into carrying a dedicated camera, this is one that, uh, cause I just can't, I can't get into, um, or I can't get around to, I guess, ponying up for kind of the lack of money at this point. Um, so this feels like a good alternative. |
| James Stacey | Obviously the other plus you get with the, uh, with the Fuji film, is its native 35 mm. Oh, okay. Whereas the Q is 28. And does it... Is there a huge difference there? No, not really. Does it matter? Yeah, it could matter, right? Yeah. If you get deep into the Q conversation with people, most people don't ask for more resolution or different batteries or better this or that. They want a version that's either 35 or 50. Yeah, yeah. That seems to be the big ask. And with this one, you can tell or adapt to 50 and you can wide adapt to... I think it's 28 or 24. So you'd still have those options. Personally, I think if you start at 35, you might just stay at 35. I could see going to 50 if you wanna shoot some portraits, right? Yeah. I think there's a ton of camera here, and I'm also pretty interested to see what happens to the X100V, the five. One, because they were difficult to get because production was more limited and they're made in Japan, to my understanding. The 100 Six is going to be made in China. Everybody is hypothesizing that this is going to increase production capabilities so that the camera is not in constant, uh, demand, uh, or unbiability to a certain extent. Um, I, it will be interesting to see how purists kind of maybe connect with the five based on its roots and where it's made. And, but there are some pretty straight high line benefits and changes modifications to the new platform. So I always find it really interesting and I've said for a long time that whatever hobby you're into, photography will only make it better. That's why it's like it's not necessarily the best hobby just to get into cameras for camera's sake. It can be if that's what you're fascinated by. It's like getting into trains, right? It's expensive, it's detailed, it's gonna take up a lot of your life and space in your home and that kind of thing. But as a modification of whatever your hobby is, let's say you love to hike or ski, photography, great. Let's say you love watches, great. Cars, great. whatever you can name. Let's say you love board games, photography. Yeah, yeah. And a great camera will only expand that. It kind of enriches the experience. It's like the greatest piggyback parasite sort of hobby. Um, and, and I, you know, we, we're always pretty clear that like if, if your phone is doing what you need it to do, stick with your phone, don't go crazy and buy gear you don't need. Don't, don't upgrade because you think it's necessarily good. Like understand what, what might actually quote unquote make your photography better. Yeah. But if you wanna get into that level of taking it a little bit more seriously, I think that you always have to have the X100 series on your radar. And with a new one, it immediately popped off in the photography channel on Slack, so I figured I'd throw in Gajan's video. I'm a huge fan of this guy. I really, really like him. I really enjoy his work. Church and Street is a really interesting, evolving platform for learning about photography and also all of the ancillary skills that go with it. the social skills, the planning, the travel, all these things. I think he gives a very interesting sort of perspective on all of this, so I highly recommend it, and it's a treat to have him sort it out. If you saw my review of my week on the wrist with the Seiko SPB 381 GMT, that was shot by Gajin in my living room of my previous home. Just a great guy, very talented, And, uh, like I said, it's, it's fun to see him talk about something that's a little bit more accessible than some of the gear he normally uses. So with the X 106, uh, I wouldn't say run out and buy one immediately unless you've been sitting waiting for a five. Oh yeah. But it's worth knowing about if you're going to put yourself in the market to spend a couple grand on a camera. Yeah, for sure. |
| Jason Heaton | Yeah. Well, I mean, I, I'm not sure I'm going to run out and buy this, but I will watch this, uh, this review and you've kind of inspired me to dust off the DF and maybe put a, yeah. I've got... I think I've got an old manual focus, like a 28 millimeter lens or something I should throw on there. Oh, perfect. |
| James Stacey | Makes it kind of a small platform to carry around, and it's a pretty light camera, so... Yeah, I think the other one that we have to get in your hands at some point is the GR3X, the 40 millimeter. Oh, yeah. Yeah, right. It's like everything you want from a phone... Yeah. Taken to 30, not 11. Yeah, wow. Like the resolution's there, the speed is there, it's super subtle and tiny and all the All the stuff that's kind of annoying about some systems, the batteries, the charging, the this, the that, it's all kind of minimized. So it's like a little tiny camera that just gets out of your way. You can definitely shoot like a phone. And if you start to really lean into certain types of editing, the photos that come out of the camera just offer such a latitude for creativity. And there's no question the Fujifilm can do the same. It's just you know, Google both or look at the show notes for both include, you'll know what I mean by the difference in the platform. Sure. The, the, the Rico is just, they packed a lot into the size of a traditional point and shoot, basically maybe point shoot plus point two, something like that. Whereas the Fuji film looks like something from 1978, you know, and it's gorgeous and it's great and all that kind of stuff, but two, two kinds of different scenarios. All right. That was a fun show. Man, we're getting really lucky with guests lately. |
| Jason Heaton | Oh, yeah, totally. And we've got a few on the books for the next couple of months. So, yeah, stay tuned. |
| James Stacey | Well, as always, thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to subscribe to the show to get into the show notes, get the comments for each episode or consider supporting the show directly and nab yourself a brand new TGN signed NATO and or access to the slack, please visit TheGreyNado.com. Music throughout is, of course, Siesta by Jazzar via the free music archive. |
| Jason Heaton | And we leave you with this quote from Roman Payne, who said, I wandered everywhere through cities and countries wide and everywhere I went the world was on my side. |